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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70926: May 21st 2017 at 7:05:46 AM

"Mary Sue" is a term which is often used wrongly, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon it describes doesn't exist. So, since I still haven't heard a description of Riri's character, I would say that this actually might be a case of one. That doesn't mean that she can't become a good character later on...Skye from Ao S started out as a borderline Mary Sue (borderline because the show did show her character flaws from the get go, its main failure was to put a little bit too much focus on this one character in an ensemble show as well as not really explaining very well why Coulson wanted her on his team) but developed into a layered character. But I doubt that I would have stuck around to see the Skye show, so it was good that she was part of an ensemble.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70927: May 21st 2017 at 7:37:59 AM

[up][up]Like how Venom was gonna originally be a woman who had a miscarriage as a result of a fight between Spider-Man and a supervillain before that was nixed.

Superheroes generally have a mixed track record of addressing collateral damage, which largely comes down to writers thinking it'll make the heroes unlikable if audiences know they killed innocent people or didn't do enough to save them.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#70928: May 21st 2017 at 9:09:35 AM

"flaws doesn't seem to make Captain America a Mary Sue."

Cap have some sueish train but he is not gone, him and súperman are what I like a call mary sue trigger, a chararter who have a very probability to be a sue, there is a reason Winter soldiders focus more on the other chararter taking to steve rather than him.

But im with swan, mary sue is a term to said you dont like a chararter without offering a why so is just laziness

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#70929: May 21st 2017 at 9:13:36 AM

And like I said earlier, it's a very loaded term. It has a strong tendency of wasting people's time debating whether they fit the criteria or not as opposed to any actual substance of the character or the work itself.

It's not that I don't get that sometimes it might be more appropriate in regards to certain characters, but it doesn't really matter if they fit it since it's a term that usually sets a bad tone for the discourse.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70930: May 21st 2017 at 12:06:51 PM

Even if we put the term aside, I am still waiting for an explanation why the audience should like Riri as much (or more) than Tony....because that would be necessary in order for said audience to not resent her.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70931: May 21st 2017 at 12:14:16 PM

I'm gonna guess about 90% of the audience reception to Tony Stark at this point comes down to personality and charisma. It certainly isn't based on his actions or robot suit. If they could find an actress in the right age with the same presence and improv skills— which wouldn't be easy— that's about all you could ask for.

But RDJ's not going to keep playing this part full-time forever. Some fans are inevitably going to resent any change no matter what it is. You've got to stay the course with the fans who are still invested and try and bring the others back around.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#70932: May 21st 2017 at 12:16:59 PM

If we're talking about replacing Tony I think Rhodey makes more sense as the new Iron Man than some girl nobody has ever seen before or has any connection to.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#70933: May 21st 2017 at 12:19:45 PM

I doubt Don Ch Eadler will be playing the role for long either

edited 21st May '17 12:20:53 PM by windleopard

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#70934: May 21st 2017 at 12:20:45 PM

They already replaced Rhodey once. Doing that again wouldn't be that out of the question. Heck, they can just replace RDJ if they really wanted to.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70935: May 21st 2017 at 12:28:59 PM

The issue is more that in-universe both Tony and Rhodey are getting too old to fly around in metal suits. Especially Rhodey, since he should be a little bit older than Tony.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70937: May 21st 2017 at 12:45:18 PM

[up] Because they were together at college and Tony was a prodigy. It therefore stands to suspect the Tony was younger than the other students.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70938: May 21st 2017 at 12:47:16 PM

Ahh, I didn't remember that they were at college together. I had assumed they were about the same age or that Rhodey was younger, and they had met some other way. Good catch.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70939: May 21st 2017 at 1:13:05 PM

[up] Well, I am actually not sure if it was college, but Tony mentions a memorable Spring Break at one point and considering how young he graduated from MIT....If they meet at any point during their education, Rhodey should be the older one, since Tony took over Stark industries at 21.

edited 21st May '17 1:14:11 PM by Swanpride

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#70940: May 21st 2017 at 1:19:18 PM

I don't really see why Tony needs a replacement. We've already gone four years without an Iron Man solo film, and by the time Phase 3 wraps up in 2019, it'll be six years, more than half the total age of the MCU. Clearly Marvel feels no pressing need to put out movies with the words "Iron Man" in the title, so when RDJ becomes unable or unwilling to continue playing Tony Stark, is there any particular reason to have another character start calling themselves Iron Man?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#70941: May 21st 2017 at 1:37:17 PM

[up]Because Iron man have pretty much become the "face" of the avenger and in many way the MCU, is the witty personality that complement Cap stright men act, so without him it feel something is missing.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70942: May 21st 2017 at 1:46:22 PM

Neither actor will be around forever, and while they will eventually be recast, I wouldn't do it the minute they're out the door. And while I don't think a direct one-to-one replacement of Iron Man is necessary— lots of other characters around— I just don't think Riri Williams should be ruled out.

That being said I'd rather see She-Hulk, and I'm hoping/pretty sure we'll see Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Falcon, Spider-Man, and Spider-Man step up and be the new Avengers.

...and get Luke Cage in there too, dammit, but that probably isn't going to happen.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70944: May 21st 2017 at 2:24:17 PM

The Ironman question is one we should revisit three to five years after Tony has been phased out of the MCU.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#70946: May 21st 2017 at 6:33:21 PM

Huh. That looks alright.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70947: May 21st 2017 at 8:06:08 PM

I only wish they included the tuning fork on Lockjaw's head.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70948: May 21st 2017 at 8:27:17 PM

I'm not sure if it's raised or not, but you can totally see the light hitting the fork on Lockjaw, it's just angled back and grainy. But where's Bolt's tuning fork? That's the real question.

Cool. More bulldog, more better. Here's hoping this looks good in IMAX high def, I guess.

edited 21st May '17 8:27:44 PM by Unsung

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#70949: May 21st 2017 at 8:34:15 PM

What is with this show's hate campaign on tuning forks?

This song needs more love.
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#70950: May 21st 2017 at 8:51:38 PM

#StopTuningForkErasure2k17

When we're done, there won't be anything left.

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