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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#70876: May 20th 2017 at 5:40:34 PM

[[up]yes and no, sure the scale is smaller but so far civil war is more complex fight because now you have a lot of special fighters, all of the friends(well kinda) fighting at the same time, while the other is just avengers vs mooks which is "easier"

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#70877: May 20th 2017 at 5:40:53 PM

Yeah. The accusation of Riri (and other invariably female) characters as being Mary Sues coupled with the seemingly visceral hatred toward them makes me inclined to dismiss negative opinions regarding them. And to be honest, makes me assume that the people uttering those opinions are "Red Pillers" whose opinions I can dismiss.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#70878: May 20th 2017 at 5:44:04 PM

I wouldn't necessarily assume they are redpillers per se, just the kind of person more likely to buy into that sort of ideology if their vitriol is particularly nasty.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#70879: May 20th 2017 at 5:50:58 PM

[up][up]That's the fallacy of saying every single female character is evil when you dislike one.

Moon Girl doesn't fit that criteria. Kamala doesn't. I find America Chavez horribly written at points but she isn't. Etc.

edited 20th May '17 5:51:21 PM by Beatman1

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70880: May 20th 2017 at 5:55:31 PM

Huh. I was pretty sure that she hacked and leaked those files herself.
I think it's the very first issue of Invincible Iron Man by Bendis where Tony states somebody leaked his plans on the internet. Riri doesn't show up until well later than that.

And not only succeeding, but making an armour that was vastly superiour than Tony's very first.
"Vastly superior" what? Her suit breaks apart after a few days of working, something Tony's didn't. Then, later, he lends her his own supplies to make a new one.

The dude hates that other people use his tech, and I don't get why this kid is so special that he doesn't care.
Because the other people stole his tech. Riri reversed engineered them and she didn't use them for her own gain, she immediately went out and tried to help people.

Moon Girl is currently the smartest person in the Marvel Universe and yet she's not a Mary Sue.

edited 20th May '17 5:56:44 PM by alliterator

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#70881: May 20th 2017 at 5:58:34 PM

I'll say this about Riri - she is not the youngest super-genius in Marvel Comics. We have Moon Girl, for one thing, and of course Valeria Richards is not only younger than both of them, but has also been around considerably longer.

My point is that Marvel has plenty of super-intelligent youngsters, so I don't see why Riri is so objectionable in that regard.

maybe America Chavez, and she's a big maybe

I mean, America isn't intended to be anyone's replacement.

edited 20th May '17 5:59:12 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#70882: May 20th 2017 at 6:15:59 PM

[up]

I know, I mentioned her because she's part of the wave of characters introduced to cater to the outcry of people saying that Marvel (or comicbooks in general) don't have enough diversity. They are right, only Marvel is going the wrong way about it. As somebody pointed out, America is very badly written at times. Them mentioning that she's a lesbian at every turn makes matters worse.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70883: May 20th 2017 at 7:01:29 PM

Except she doesn't? At all? I mean, she certainly doesn't do it in Young Avengers.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#70884: May 20th 2017 at 7:06:19 PM

I think they might be referring to her solo? I kiiind of dropped that after the first issue, so I wouldn't really know...

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70885: May 20th 2017 at 7:08:25 PM

I read the first two issues and they were okay, but she certainly wasn't telling everyone she was a lesbian every few pages. I think she mentioned it once.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#70886: May 20th 2017 at 7:34:40 PM

I haven't read any Ironheart but just reading your descriptions I'm not seeing what makes her any more of a Mary Sue than any of Marvel's other superheroes, or even Tony Stark himself.

About the most Sue-ish trait would be her being so smart at such a young age, but Peter Parker's in the same boat and nobody calls him a Sue as far as I've seen.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#70887: May 20th 2017 at 7:47:07 PM

Moon Girl is the smartest person alive and she couldn't get in to see any of the Marvel movies without standing on someone's shoulders in a trench coat.

My various fanfics.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#70888: May 20th 2017 at 7:49:54 PM

I think the issues with her can be easily resolved with a better writer. Recall, criticism regarding Riri also came from the social justice side of the web, in that having her written by one of Marvel's usual writers dampened her revolutionary potential. And also led into situations like her getting uncomfortably sexualized art when she's 15, another example of status quo blindness.

Rehabilitation with another writer is easily possible. I thought Amadeus Cho's introduction way back was obnoxious, but he's turned into a cooler character since.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70889: May 20th 2017 at 7:50:02 PM

But what if she stood on devil dinosaur's shoulders wearing a trenchcoat?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#70890: May 20th 2017 at 7:52:20 PM

She still couldn't get in because then she couldn't fit into the theater.

My various fanfics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70891: May 20th 2017 at 7:54:44 PM

Aww

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70892: May 20th 2017 at 7:59:44 PM

I thought Amadeus Cho's introduction way back was obnoxious, but he's turned into a cooler character since.
Ironically, he's still being written by the same writer who created him: Greg Pak. But yeah: when Amadeus Cho was introduced, he was the eighth smartest person in the world. And yet not a Mary Sue!

Also, now I am longing for a Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur movie. GIVE IT TO US, MARVEL!

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70893: May 20th 2017 at 8:01:10 PM

It'd make an awesome animated movie

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#70894: May 20th 2017 at 8:03:55 PM

I'd rather have the Nextwave version of Devil Dinosaur, personally.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#70896: May 20th 2017 at 8:22:13 PM

That can be an evil Devil Dinosaur from another dimension.

Or a clone, yeah.

edited 20th May '17 8:22:27 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70897: May 20th 2017 at 8:29:29 PM

I wish we could get a Nextwave show. We need something now that's all about HEALING AMERICA BY BEATING PEOPLE UP.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#70898: May 20th 2017 at 8:39:19 PM

I need a Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur movie! Seriously, Lunella is awesome.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#70899: May 20th 2017 at 8:45:45 PM

Can she at least appear in Agents of SHIELD?

Because someone riding a giant red dinosaur is everything wonderful about comics.

edited 20th May '17 8:48:10 PM by Beatman1

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#70900: May 20th 2017 at 8:56:23 PM

[up] That would be incredible. I would be here for that. Plus, I mean, she's an Inhuman too, so that could be their excuse for Lunella showing up! It works!

When we're done, there won't be anything left.

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