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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Bump.
Okay, finally done with Iron Fist. Finally. I'm so fucking pissed with this show that it's hard to put it into words that exist in any human language. It's infuriating. It's unfocused, unsure of itself, poorly written, poorly structured, and just about everything in it that's good is followed up by something bad. That face-heel turn Joy takes? It still feels jarring. Like, I feel like they should've done a better job of inserting some stuff with her becoming more and more amoral. She was by far the least interesting of the Meachum family due to lack of development. The finale was unsatisfying outside of them blowing their budget with Danny punching a floor of the Rand building with the Iron Fist. Harold finally gets to shine again and it just doesn't have as much impact going for it when him and Danny fight. This is a revelation they could've used earlier in the season or saved for later. Harold could've had some time in the second season as an antagonist. Danny barely has a consistent character arc going on, and his struggles just don't have as much of an impact as Ward's or Colleen's. He could've easily put on the mask when he went on the run in the last episode, maybe even have Claire make a dig at him looking like Daredevil. The ending with K'un L'un gone because Danny wasn't there to save it leaves me with mixed feelings. On the one hand, K'un L'un is run by idiots, but on the other hand, Danny done fucked up. Overall, I'd rate Iron Fist as the absolute weakest of the Marvel TV shows, lower than even Agent Carter's season season and Daredevil's second season. At least those had some serious high points going on. Iron Fist's high points don't even scrape as high as they should.
Ugh...I have such a headache. At least Agents of SHIELD comes on tonight.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?I reserve judgement on Joy because I think that the writers are going for something particular. If they don't and it is a genuine turn it makes no sense, I agree. But I am ready to wait and see on that one.
Harold had to die this season, and not just because he was too dangerous. It concluded Danny's arc to not kill him.
Anyway...the whole recap made me realize something: This show has some really memorable killing scenes, doesn't it?
I think that Joy actually enjoyed hunting the Hand but didn't enjoy being left in the dark by everyone in her life. So she is now in a position in which she can collect information left and right and make her move whenever she wants. It is a total Joy move.
But should they actually follow the comics in let Joy attack Danny for anything but a ruse than, yeah, it makes zero sense. But I don't think they will. It's too obvious and if there is one thing the writing wasn't, it's predictable.
Well, now that Agents of SHIELD's fourth season is over and I finished Iron Fist, I'm gonna go ahead and give my personal rankings for each season of every Marvel TV series and see how it compares with everyone else. Gonna start with the lowest and go with the highest.
11. Iron Fist, Season 1. I've ranted enough about this throughout the thread, so I'm gonna keep it brief: it's inconsistent with heavy low points and bad editing, and the acting ranges from good to poor. Madame Gao is the best villain with Harold Meachum not too far behind, but Bakuto, despite his faction of the Hand being far more interesting than Nobu's in Daredevil, is a poorly acted and horrible villain.
10. Daredevil, Season 2. Already ranted enough about this one too so gonna keep it simple. The Punisher moments are of a high quality that would've given it a slight edge ahead of Agent Carter's second season, but the low moments are horrid. The story is overstuffed and conflicted, dashing from an interesting Punisher story to a shitty Hand story, with a villain that's probably the worst in the entire TV side of the MCU. Yes, Nobu is even worse than friggin' Bakuto.
9. Agent Carter, Season 2. While it's a shame Agent Carter ended with an unresolved cliffhanger, this season didn't help by, in comparison to the mostly solid first season, being fairly abysmal. Whitney Frost was an alright villain and certainly had her high points, but she was dealt with in a fairly anti-climactic way. The season just seemed to lack some of what I loved about the first season, though it's at least somewhat saved by the cast being fun as always (though Angie not being there outside of a musical number I missed because of the damn Florida weather makes me frustrated).
8. Agents of SHIELD, Season 1. The weakest season of the show with a fairly inconsistent and often downright awful first three-quarters or so, but once it picks up it fucking picks up exponentially. The early episodes range from so-so to alright to bad (especially the one with Lorelei), but the release of Winter Soldier really helped the show find its footing, and the presence of John Garrett as played by a delightfully over the top Bill Paxton is hilarious to watch. Seriously, he stabs a guy with his own rib, that's great. The other seasons improved on it a lot more and have far more consistent quality for the most part, though.
7. Agents of SHIELD, Season 3. This one is still quite good, don't get me wrong, but it takes itself a while to get going. The first half is a battle for plotlines as we now have two or three antagonists running around: Ward (now suffering from villain decay thanks to overuse), Lash (a waste of a villain and a plot), and the ATCU (who switch to SHIELD's side before Rosalind gets fridged). Once Gideon Malick shows up and Simmons comes back from the alien planet, things begin looking up, and then once Hive is revealed, everything begins going up in quality. For an otherwise inconsistent season, Hive is amazing, possibly one of the best villains on the entire TV side of the MCU. The low points are quite bad (Rosalind's fridging, Lash's death being stupid and nonsensical, some stupid moments from Hunter suddenly dropping in IQ), but the highs are quite high, making for a good but inconsistent season that could've been much better.
6. Agent Carter, Season 1. This is an underrated gem. You don't see many people bring up Agent Carter anymore, and it kinda makes me annoyed because this season was really good. The commentary on sexism was, while unsubtle, still good, and the cast all played off of each other well. It was fun seeing Howard Stark and Dum Dum Dugan again as well. As far as antagonists go, Dr. Faustus and Dottie were amazing, the latter especially. Kind of wish they got the chance to do more with her. Ultimately I kind of put it around the same spot as Season 3 of Agents of SHIELD because I can't quite make up my mind about it. On the one hand, while it's good, the highs of Season 3 of Agents were much higher than this series's highs. On the other hand, it didn't have the same pacing issues or same flaws. It's a bit interchangeable, I suppose.
5. Agents of SHIELD, Season 2. The show grew into itself by the end of Season One, now it began to carry that growth throughout the entire rest of this season. This is when I went from liking Agents of SHIELD to loving it. First off, the addition of Mack, Hunter, and Bobbi made for some great character dynamics that I still kind of miss after the latter two departed. Second off, seeing how broken Fitz had become after nearly dying in Season 1 was engaging and heartbreaking. Third off, May's backstory, also heartbreaking. Fourth, Skye finally moving from "kewl hacker chick" into a competent fighter, and then added on with a heap of parental issues. Speaking of which, Cal and Jiaying were great and I still miss seeing Kyle Machlachlan on this show. The worst I can give it is that Tripp's death was stupid and that the Real SHIELD subplot was pointless.
4. Daredevil, Season 1. Now this is how you get your audience ready for the Marvel Netflix side of things. Great fight scenes, writing, acting, and hell, pretty much everything helped to establish this as the perfect opener to the dark and gritty Defenders related shows. The pacing doesn't suffer like in the other Netflix shows, but all in all I'd still say it's not the best one. Fisk, while mostly well written and well acted, is an overrated villain who isn't nearly as competent as he acts like he is. Wesley is more threatening than him. I'd still place this as being very top tier.
3. Jessica Jones, Season 1. Even better despite the pacing issues. The message behind it is far stronger and more impactful, and to be honest I like Jessica a lot more than I like Matt. Even ignoring Matt's descent into jackassery in Season 2, Jessica just seems a lot more likable despite being much more of a jerk. The supporting cast are better than on Daredevil (barring Robin of course), with Trish's relationship with Jessica being one of the high points. But of course, it's the villains that usually steal the show, and Kilgrave fucking steals it. Ooh, that guy makes my skin crawl so much, I tell ya. Even as the show keeps piling on the darkness, Kilgrave still manages to be the right mix of entertaining and creepy. The overall message of rape culture is handled very well, with Jessica's struggles with getting justice for Kilgrave's crimes and struggling with what he'd made her do being definite high points.
2. Agents of SHIELD, Season 4. Now this is fucking incredible. Given the finale just aired recently I won't spoil it here, but Jesus fucking Christ did the quality of this series go through the goddamn roof. Let's see: we got Ghost Rider, we got LMD's, we got a virtual world with Hydra in charge, we've got great villains like Aida and Radcliffe (Eli was alright but nothing special), we got the sheer terror of the LMD's by the last episode of the second arc, we got tighter pacing, we got unsubtle and oh so called for Trump jabs, we got Ward and Tripp back for a bit in a manner that I actually liked and felt made sense, and we got Jeffrey Mace, one of my favorite characters of this entire season with a very good arc. At worst I can say that the show's first arc wasn't as good as the two that followed it, but we got Ghost Rider out of it so I don't care.
1. Luke Cage, Season 1. This is definitely my favorite one so far. Yeah, the second half suffers a bit thanks to Diamondback, but I maintain that it isn't as bad as people say. For the most part, it's a solid series with one of my favorite members of the upcoming Defenders, my favorite supporting cast, my favorite villains (aside from Diamondback, but even he has his moments), and one of the best soundtracks of all the shows. I can't really explain it to be honest, because while the previous shows had some better writing, I still liked Luke Cage a little tiny bit more than I liked them. Might be the entertainment aspect or something, who knows.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
This is hard to do, especially since I tend to split Ao S more in storyarcs than season (like, the first half of season 1 is utterly mediocre, but I am still all over the second half of it...well, once the Winter soldier kicks in. Though I would mostly agree, except that Agent Carter season 1 would be higher, as would Iron Fist. I think it is better than Daredevil season 2 and Luke Cage, which for me are both shows with a second half which really ruined the first half.
I still don't get why people liked Luke Cage. I mean, the stuff with Cottonmouth and Pop is great, but as soon as Cottonmouth is killed the show went downhill. Not only is Cottonmouth wasted as a great, complex villain (one who's crazy conflicted about his own role) and gets replaced by Mariah, who's evil for evil's sake. And god, Diamondback. My god, he ruined the whole show for me. He's ridiculous, has no threatening presence, he's dumb as a bag of bricks and at no point feels like a great counterpoint to Luke. And the there's Luke himself, the plainest, most boring superhero I've ever seen on screen. I mean, I'm saying something when I say that Claire, the one character I feel is having less and less purpose as the shows go on, is the most interesting character after Cottonmouth dies.
Shades made the rest bearable for me. I feel like he'd be the best replacement villain for Cottonmouth instead of Mariah or Diamondback.
Say what you will about Iron Fist, but they don't kill their most compelling characters in the middle of the whole season.
edited 17th May '17 8:38:04 AM by ExplosiveLion
Among Iron Fist's scant blessings is that it does explain why Nobu is such a shitty, shitty, shitty villain
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI agree with Lion more or less though I'm less caustic. LC has some genuinely great writing but I like it even less than Iron Fist in many ways because of how much it wastes its own greatness.
Mariah's problem for me is that she's just Wilson Fisk 2.0. It's literally the exact same character arc, complete with "Unstoppable Rage No-Holds-Barred Beatdown that triggers her political downfall and criminal ascension".
Cottonmouth's self-conflict and attempts to remain honorable in spite of his own cruelty were much more interesting.
edited 17th May '17 8:58:51 AM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Exactly. I don't find Generation Xerox to be a good reason to be evil. And that's the only reason Mariah has for being evil; because she's like Mama Mabel. All of her and Cottonmouth's backstory pointed out HIM with all the best reasons, storywise and narratively, to become evil. No only did he hated Mama Mabel and never wanted to become a bad guy in the first place, he's beaten into it, and when he does become a bad guy he does it with such a sense of honor and pride and some degree in nobility, yet never stops being completely brutal and merciless. Mariah just does shit because she's evil, Shades coming off as the real mastermind of the two.
And not only that, Cottonmouth actually came across as not only more effective and brutal, but also more genuinely evil and threatening. I mean, he unashamedly told Mariah to her face that she enjoyed getting raped by their uncle. If that doesn't spell "crazy, merciless, brutal and irredeemable crimelord" then nothing does.
Mariah and Cottonmouth played off each other perfectly. Cousins-in-crime, one slightly less evil than the other, both wanting to make Harlem a better place (with ulterior motives, of course), with Cottonmouth as the better, most succesful villain of the two. But it seems to me that as soon as Mariah killed Cottonmouth, the writers figured out that she's not that great a character when she's on her own, ergo they gave her Shades to make up for her lack of brains and focus.
Also, the whole Fisk 2.0 thing defines very well her whole arc.
Eh, you can argue Mariah is better written, but she definitely doesn't get as much shit done as Fisk. Fisk wipes out the entire Russian mob over the course of season 1 of DD. Mariah, for the most part, just leeches off her brother's schemes. Then on Shades's schemes. Then on D Iamondback's.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."But what a fun leach she is. I wanna see her thrown in jail so bad but I love her so much, it's deliciously fun. As for the Fisk comparisons...Mr. Career Suicide is My Middle Name was still fucking incompetent, I'm sorry. Mariah actually accomplished stuff that allowed her to get away with everything in Luke Cage, even if she had Shades's help with it. Hell, her and Shades made a much better duo together than anybody Shades was paired with.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?She got away not out of her own skill though, she got away because everyone else was more concerned with taking down Diamondback. She slipped through the cracks.
They both have "career suicide is my middle name" as job descriptions. Fisk kills Owsley in blind rage and Mariah kills Cottonmouth in blind rage. She would be permanently screwed if Shades and Diamondback didn't swoop in to clean her mess and distract everyone from dealing with her. Fisk just didn't have the same luck.
edited 17th May '17 9:35:41 AM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."The show progressively paints Mariah into a corner so that the only way to retain the power she has grown to crave is to become Mama Mabel 2.0
That's the point of the scene with the hostile interviewer and Cottonmouth hiding his money in one of her buildings
And it gets worse when Diamondback starts purposefully dragging her into criminal circles for shits and giggles perhaps
Forever liveblogging the Avengers"Hive is amazing, possibly one of the best villains on the entire TV side of the MCU"
No,no,no,no Hive is just the same ward except with more monóloging, is built up was excelent but in the end it was too much talk and not bite, Daisy arc with Hive mirroing ward and garret was the best part, the rest is....meh.
Also people seen to Forget Hive friging malick daughter to causa him man paín, it seen ward was still there after all...
edited 17th May '17 9:40:48 AM by unknowing
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"We already know from early on that Mariah had the potential to be much more cruel than she lets on. Her introduction has her chastising Cottonmouth for saying the N word, and then a couple of episodes later she flips and says "Can the n—-a drown?", listing some pretty cruel (and unused) ways they could kill off Luke. Her entire arc is her becoming dirtier and dirtier in order to gain power, that's not a lack of motive or anything. Hell, I guess I might be a sucker for villains who slip more and more into depravity to get power.
Hive is barely anything like Ward. He's basically Apocalypse. And a much better Apocalypse than what we got in friggin' Age of That Blue Guy Who Doesn't Know How To Fucking Plot.
edited 17th May '17 9:40:05 AM by AdricDePsycho
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

Maybe the lighting? I dunno what to tell ya, man.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?