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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#70551: May 15th 2017 at 9:06:14 AM

Gary Shandling, who played Senator Stern.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70552: May 15th 2017 at 9:06:43 AM

Oh yeah, forgot about him.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70553: May 15th 2017 at 1:55:38 PM

[up] If another one joins the list I might start talking about a curse.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70554: May 15th 2017 at 1:59:14 PM

Fuck, I just remembered I still need to finish watching Iron Fist. I gotta get on that.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70555: May 15th 2017 at 2:09:04 PM

[up][up]Men of a certain age, and all that.

Rest in peace.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#70556: May 15th 2017 at 2:09:43 PM

[up][up] You are in our prayers.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70557: May 15th 2017 at 2:14:47 PM

OK, got to the scene with that Scythe dude singing karaoke in front of a bunch of people he killed, and Jesus fucking Christ I had to wait six episodes for this awesomeness? What pisses me off so much about the pacing of this show is that the first five episodes could've and should've been condensed into three episodes, and there should've been more scenes of Danny training in K'un L'un instead of useless padding to stretch out the Netflix episode requirements.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70559: May 15th 2017 at 2:19:03 PM

Taaaaake ooooon meeee'

TAAAAAAKE MEEEE OOOON

I'LL BE GOOOO

(chokes someone with the microphone cord)

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70560: May 15th 2017 at 2:20:52 PM

Like, I put this off for so long because there was absolutely no hook to keep me coming to it. The horrible pacing, bad fight scenes, and awkward writing left me with no impression that I should come back to it until now. The opening to this episode is exactly what I wanted from an Iron Fist show. The shot of Danny sitting on the couch in this badass meditation pose, the narration from his old master from K'un L'un, all of those assassins from The Hand getting rounded up, all of that was great. That opening alone makes me think that yes, the RZA should be the guy in charge of this show. If he wants to redeem both the show and himself after that eighty-eight year bullshit, then make him the showrunner for the series.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70561: May 15th 2017 at 2:25:55 PM

Amen, brother, Amen.

Episode 6 is by far the show's best and it really captures what this show could be if they play their cards right.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#70562: May 15th 2017 at 2:29:40 PM

[up]This is why RZA needs to handle Season 2.

Also Danny's master is 2012 Splinter. Same voice.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70563: May 15th 2017 at 3:05:00 PM

In episode 8 is a fight which was handled by the Agents of Shield expert for episodes which are heavy on fight scenes. I would rather have him as a show runner or at least the to-go guy for all fight scenes in Iron Fist if not for the fact that we will need him for Ao S season 5...(yey!!!)

Yep, Iron Fist is pretty much the opposite of the other shows. You don't have to worry about pacing issues from now on forward, there will be now a steady escalation to the finale.

Also, the Karaoke scene is at least as unforgettable as the car door scene (as proven by the fact that everyone here even remembers the song he is singing). Too bad it is wasted on such a minor character...but then, he survived the fight, right?

edited 15th May '17 3:05:55 PM by Swanpride

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70564: May 15th 2017 at 3:08:49 PM

And done with the episode. Fucking great fight scenes finally, though some are mired by shit editing. The fight between Danny and Scythe was great. Madame Gao keeps on acting awesome, and the entire set up of this episode reminds me of Game of Death. If I had complaints, it's that the Bride of Nine Spiders was, aside from the poison needles, kinda stupid. Her outfit is horrid and she's basically there to be sexy and threatening. Scythe and those two Russian guys had more personality to them.

Also, Jesus fucking Christ, the guys from K'un L'un must be assholes if they seriously think Danny should've just let the girl die over taking down the Hand. Like, yeah, fuck the Hand and all, but he came there to rescue her and letting her die for the sake of taking down the Hand would've just been fucking amoral as all hell.

edited 15th May '17 3:10:01 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70565: May 15th 2017 at 3:09:27 PM

Scythe shouldn't have been a minor character. Iron Fist doesn't really make good use of its actual supervillain-villains, aside from, of course, Madame Gao.

edited 15th May '17 3:11:37 PM by Unsung

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70566: May 15th 2017 at 3:17:56 PM

The show seems at least somewhat aware of this because Gao goes out of her way to save Scythe and have him remain under her employ. They might be planning to reuse him in future seasons.

Though the likely reason they didn't reuse him was perceived comics fidelity, the character was a one-shot antagonist in the comics too.

edited 15th May '17 3:30:18 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70567: May 15th 2017 at 3:23:06 PM

True, but Diamondback's been dead for years in the comics. Scythe and Zhou Cheng both have such great introductory scenes. This series would be so much better if they'd found a way to continue using them, even if it was only as Madame Gao's hired muscle.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70568: May 15th 2017 at 3:25:02 PM

Also, something else about the episode I liked: I kinda pitied Ward here. He devolves into an ugly, messy drug addict, and it's kind of pitiful to watch but at the same time I kinda understand him a bit better now. He's cracking under pressure to keep up this facade.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70569: May 15th 2017 at 3:30:37 PM

Perhaps they keep their options open because they wanted to wait if the audience would think that the scene is awesome or ridiculous.

Also, apparently there is a law at Marvel that characters named "Ward" have to be really hard to read correctly.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70570: May 15th 2017 at 3:34:45 PM

[up][up][up] I agree. I do hope they reuse Scythe in the future.

Zhou Cheng is a bit weirder because he's one of IF's most impressive antagonists in the comics, the literal "Iron Fist slayer". That (and his dialogue making cryptic references to his darker side) are the reasons I'm almost 100% sure we'll see him again.

[up][up] The neat trick they pull around Ward and his dad is by far this show's best ace in the hole, writing wise.

edited 15th May '17 3:35:05 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70571: May 15th 2017 at 3:37:02 PM

[up][up]Pulling your punches and not having confidence in your product doesn't do you any favours. Netflix shows release all at once anyway, so there's no point in waiting for the reaction. You're not going to be able to course-correct like a weekly show, you're just going to have to take another run at it next season. Go big or go home.

[up]And acting-wise, too, gotta say.

edited 15th May '17 3:38:34 PM by Unsung

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70572: May 15th 2017 at 3:41:21 PM

Okay, so...this Colleen and Danny romance came out of nowhere and feels kind of stupid...still better than Matt and Karen, but still not really good...

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70573: May 15th 2017 at 3:43:15 PM

This isn't, however, a problem exclusive to Iron Fist. Daredevil likewise spent the entire first season doing an origin story for Wilson Fisk and Matt Murdock, and still hasn't featured foes like Bullseye, The Owl or Mr. Fear, some of his very best. Luke Cage did about the same.

IF is actually the show that tries the most not to pull its punches (post episode 5, that is), by using Scythe, Zhou Cheng, the Meachums, Bakuto (who isn't a Iron Fist villain, even!) and Mother Crane/Madame Gao.

They just chose the wrong punches the pull, so to speak.

edited 15th May '17 3:44:24 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70574: May 15th 2017 at 3:50:48 PM

I don't mind them keeping some villains in reserve, but Iron Fist is basically holding back almost all of its kung fu mysticism right now. Everybody can't be mysterious all the time. Somebody has to be the series' straightforward mid-boss, someone for the hero to fight and beat, like Nuke, Cottonmouth, or the various ethnic stereotype gangs in Daredevil. Someone that both the hero and the audience can use to put a face to the evil, someone they can share.

That post was actually more of a response to Swanpride, though. The punch being pulled is that of waiting for you audience to decide whether or not they're invested enough to buy into your goofy superhero martial arts story. If you have doubts about that, rewrites, rather than hard cuts, are in order.

edited 15th May '17 3:52:21 PM by Unsung

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70575: May 15th 2017 at 3:59:22 PM

I agree with you entirely. I was referring more to the actual use of characters rather than plotline themselves.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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