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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70451: May 12th 2017 at 1:29:25 PM

In broad Hollywood math, you need to get at least twice your budget to be considered profitable. F4tastic got roughly 130% of its budget back, so it's a definite failure.

Sometimes studios are more forgiving on the box office when fan reception or critical reception (which tends to lessen the blow by increasing the sales of DV Ds and Blu-Rays), but in this case both fans and critics despised the film.

So there's really no angle in which Fox came out winning of the film. Even the cast and crew involved with the film disown it, so it also soured studio relations with people.

I can,however, see Fox doing a Silver Surfer film to ride the wave of the Guardians of the Galaxy.

edited 12th May '17 1:30:11 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#70452: May 12th 2017 at 1:40:46 PM

At this point it would probably be better to just give Marvel the rights to some of the characters instead of trying to make another film. If the box office of the last one is anything to go by they'd basically be wasting money for no reason on a second reboot.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70453: May 12th 2017 at 1:52:04 PM

[up][up] Thing is, this won't work. Apparently there actually has to be Fantastic 4 in the title (hence the reason why they forced "X-men" into the title of the first Wolverine movie).

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#70454: May 12th 2017 at 1:57:10 PM

Doesn't that leave a loophole of them making a movie about four entirely unrelated people and naming it Fantastic Four?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70455: May 12th 2017 at 2:02:46 PM

Wyatt Wingfoot, Alicia Masters, the Yancy Street Gang and Valeria Richards are

THE FANTASTIC FOUR

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70456: May 12th 2017 at 2:03:21 PM

From what was said about the production of Deadpool they do still have to clear certain things with Marvel. That's how they were able to trade Ego for having carte blanche to redo NTW.

t sounds like it's confirmation that the Fantastic Four rights definitely aren't back at Marvel yet or close to it, and that on top of that Marvel Studios isn't fighting particularly hard to get them back either.t sounds like it's confirmation that the Fantastic Four rights definitely aren't back at Marvel yet or close to it, and that on top of that Marvel Studios isn't fighting particularly hard to get them back either.

Did anyone think that wasn't the case? I swear it seems like every few weeks someone speculates the rights to the X-Men and FF might finally be coming back to Marvel, based on virtually nothing.

I still remember someone adding the WMG to the Doctor Strange page that Mads Mikkelsen's character was actually Victor Von Doom using an alias.

edited 12th May '17 2:04:06 PM by comicwriter

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#70457: May 12th 2017 at 2:05:42 PM

[up][up][up]I'm not convinced they won't introduce Inhumans with their exact same power set at some point.

This song needs more love.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70458: May 12th 2017 at 2:06:28 PM

...Mads Mikkelsen would have, would still make a fantastic (I'm aware) Doom.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#70459: May 12th 2017 at 2:06:49 PM

At this point X-Men will probably never come back. It's too successful. FF on the other hand is nothing but dead weight. If I were Fox I'd just want Marvel to take it back so I don't have to worry about losing money on a half-assed reboot every sevenish years.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70460: May 12th 2017 at 2:11:15 PM

Doesn't that leave a loophole of them making a movie about four entirely unrelated people and naming it Fantastic Four?

You mean Marvel? No. That'd be infringing on Fox's rights. For example we discussed a while back that one of the documents in the Sony hack said if Marvel put Jessica Drew in a movie, they couldn't actually call her "Spider-Woman" or have her wear the red costume, because it'd be seen as infringing on the Spider-Man franchise Sony has exclusive film rights to.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70461: May 12th 2017 at 2:14:00 PM

The problem is no one wants to be the asshole that let all those rights go back to Marvel when they inevitably start making money. It's not even just the Four themselves, it's all the associated characters and settings tied up together in that arcane rights package. If the MCU uses Galactus, the Surfer, Doom, any of it, then someone up top at Fox is immediately going to ask why they didn't do that, fair or not, and then heads will roll.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70462: May 12th 2017 at 2:29:57 PM

I think some people may have gotten the impression rights were going back or something because Marvel and Fox have seem to somewhat be thawing, in that Marvel seems to finally be easing up on the X-Men.

But that seems less like Fox secretly gave rights back and more like Marvel realized fucking over the X-Men was just leaving money on the table and pissing off fans.

DeadlyAssassin Last of the Stellarians from Helsinki Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Last of the Stellarians
#70463: May 12th 2017 at 2:33:34 PM

In broad Hollywood math, you need to get at least twice your budget to be considered profitable.

More like three, since there is always the marketing and studios only get half of the profits... from domestic market. From overseas they get about 1/3 on average.

Children of Dievas - my webcomic about the Northern Crusades
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#70464: May 12th 2017 at 2:39:14 PM

I don't know if anyone is really asking for a FF movie "done right" by the MCU as much as they want the MCU to have the characters associated with them like Doom and Namor.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#70465: May 12th 2017 at 2:39:18 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]I meant Fox actually. Why can't they just make endless In Name Only versions of the Fantastic Four? I'm guessing Marvel would get into a legal fight or something.

[up][up][up][up]As opposed to being the guy that blows millions of dollars on another failed reboot?

[up]Pretty much. Heck, I think they'd work better as guest stars in a future Guardians movie than getting their own film. The FF themselves aren't what's valuable anyway. It's people like Galactus, Kang, Silver Surfer, the Skrulls, and Doom.

edited 12th May '17 2:41:10 PM by Kostya

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70466: May 12th 2017 at 2:40:00 PM

Marvel has Namor back, apparently.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70467: May 12th 2017 at 2:43:33 PM

They can also use the Skrulls, just not certain specific ones like the Super-Skrull (for obvious reasons).

edited 12th May '17 2:43:49 PM by comicwriter

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#70468: May 12th 2017 at 2:44:55 PM

What weird kind of deal is this that lets them use the Skrulls but not Kang?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70469: May 12th 2017 at 2:47:52 PM

One that was cut many years ago without much foresight, one would assume.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70470: May 12th 2017 at 2:50:06 PM

At least Fox is getting good use out of the Fantastic Four rights.

So far they've used Doom, Silver Surfer, Doom, Galactus, and Doom.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70471: May 12th 2017 at 3:07:52 PM

At this point, the blame for a failed FF reboot can be spread across the whole company. That softens the blow. Entrenched beliefs, even if they're wrong.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70472: May 12th 2017 at 3:21:05 PM

The FF are no big priority so there always exists the possibility some of their villains come back via trades, like what happened with Ego.

It's rumored a few years ago Feige tried to trade for Galactus and the Surfer.

edited 12th May '17 3:22:06 PM by comicwriter

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#70473: May 12th 2017 at 3:24:42 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if Fox's next effort to hold onto the rights is The Fantastic Four Meet Deadpool.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#70474: May 12th 2017 at 3:31:17 PM

Individual character rights in such a large shared universe renders just about any contracts open to interpretation. The only thing you can really do is narrow things down to particular books, and then the courts decide what and where. Even with the rights within one company there are problems, Kingpin is unlikely to show up as a Spider-Man villain because of the Daredevil show. DC had a "bat-embargo" for their adaptations from about 2002-2007 because Justice League, Batman Begins, The Batman and Teen Titans were going on all at the same time and they didn't want to oversaturate with five different versions of The Joker, Ras Al Ghul, etc. and competing with each other for the best character and story involving them.

After all, the recent Avengers cartoons have already done their own version of Ultron and Infinity Gauntlet. If they're not careful they will be readapting the exact same material every 5 years.

thatguywhotypesstuff Since: Jul, 2011
#70475: May 12th 2017 at 4:50:46 PM

7 years is a long damn time. Then again Daredevil and The Punisher found their way home. I can see Fox trying to make it work despite the constant flops. "Third time's the charm/if it worked for Marvel it'll work for us" right?


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