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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#70326: May 10th 2017 at 1:44:22 PM

I think the general consensus is that Thor the Dark World, Ironman 2 and The Incredible Hulk are the weakest movies of the MCU (not necessarily in that order). And I think this is fair.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70327: May 10th 2017 at 1:44:56 PM

[up][up][up][up] Yeah I have heard a lot of the complaints. I've been told, much like the first movie, the problem is the human cast.

But I didn't really hate the human cast in Thor 1 so I was like whatevs.

edited 10th May '17 1:45:26 PM by Nikkolas

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70328: May 10th 2017 at 1:50:36 PM

Thor the Dark World and Iron Man 2 are the most bleh MCU movies but they're still reasonably well-made. It's more that their creative choices went the wrong direction than anything.

The worst in the sense of actual structural problems, MCU movies are Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#70329: May 10th 2017 at 2:14:09 PM

Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron are my least favourites by far.

Oissu!
MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#70330: May 10th 2017 at 2:32:57 PM

You know, I really don't want to see them do the Secret Invasion storyline, but I can see someone inside lobbying for it. Because then they have a way to bring HYDRA! Cap into the mix (since Marvel doesn't seem to care that it's universally hated by everyone except neo-nazis, who use it as a source of validation) and then (if it goes badly for them, anyway) retcon it out in one scene that amounts to someone looking at the camera and saying "Never mind, it was a Skrull all along".

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70331: May 10th 2017 at 2:49:22 PM

They're never touching Nazi Cap. That story has gone over like a lead balloon in comics, a niche medium compared to film. I cannot see them spending upwards of 150 million dollars on a hatchet job on one of their most lucrative franchises.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#70332: May 10th 2017 at 2:52:04 PM

I never thought they could do civil war but here we are with a successful film

Give it a few years,people might look on it fondly by then

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70333: May 10th 2017 at 2:54:32 PM

Those two things aren't really comparable. Civil War sold well as far as I can recall but even if it didn't and even if Secret Empire was crazy popular, the situations are too different. Making Cap a Nazi has wider implications no one will touch. Disney will not allow that movie to be made, period.

It be fitting if they did but ya know.

I'd sooner bet on us seeing something like Dark Reign in the movies, with a fake Cap, but even that is pretty improbable.

edited 10th May '17 2:56:37 PM by Nikkolas

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70334: May 10th 2017 at 3:07:54 PM

Seriously, what is the point of Secret Empire? The only possible ways back at this point seem like either a We Shall Never Speak of This Again full-bore Cosmic Ret Con or some sort of M. Night Shyamalan-style twist ending.

edited 10th May '17 9:15:59 PM by Unsung

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70335: May 10th 2017 at 3:16:37 PM

The positive reviews I've heard of it says it's no different than any other Axis Victory story. There are a lot of them in fiction and they can be very good and powerful.

The point is you're SUPPOSED to feel uncomfortable. There are still heroes in this who are crying out for people to wake up and realize something is wrong.

This is what a podcast I follow said anyway. Don't read Marvel.

edited 10th May '17 3:17:22 PM by Nikkolas

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70336: May 10th 2017 at 3:18:27 PM

I don't read it either. Genuinely asking.

And yes, if that's the metaphor, I can appreciate that. Doesn't really sound like it's coming across, though.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70337: May 10th 2017 at 3:47:52 PM

Seriously, what is the point of Secret Empire?
The point is to examine the people we trust and make sure we aren't giving up essential freedoms in exchange for security, much like other stories like it. I've read the first two issues and they are actually pretty good — although, again, Agents of SHIELD did it better (and they are currently facing the aftermath of remembering two lives).

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70338: May 10th 2017 at 4:06:21 PM

[up][up][up][up]That's why I don't want it adapted as a movie. Aside from the terrible premise, there's no way it ends in anything other than a Reset Button, a reveal that it was a fakeout all along, or some other little twist. I find those sorts of stories pointless, for the same reason I disliked the idea someone just suggested that maybe the conflict in Civil War was just Thanos using the Mind Stone to mess with everyone.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#70339: May 10th 2017 at 4:09:16 PM

Meh. Even without "maybe Nazis are okay people" trappings and insensitive things the creator has said, the concept just reeks of "we're so out of ideas."

"What if Superman... wasn't super?"

"What if the Flash... wasn't fast?"

"What if Spider-Man... wasn't spider?"

There's a reason why in the Death of Captain America arc, "What if Cap was a Nazi" was used as a "Good Is Bad And Bad Is Good" hypnosis, and it took two seconds for Bucky to immediately shrug it off with a "Pffff, nah."

edited 10th May '17 4:09:59 PM by Tuckerscreator

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#70340: May 10th 2017 at 4:12:38 PM

For me that is what I call fake edgyness, trying to shock the reader with some weird situation only to go back to status quo in a way to have your cake and eat it too, also I cant see secret empire Been played since que have the reverse happeing with bucky and cap Being the enemy(in a way) in civil war, he best would be if cap is mind control and bucky have to save him

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70341: May 10th 2017 at 4:19:20 PM

The point is to examine the people we trust and make sure we aren't giving up essential freedoms in exchange for security, much like other stories like it. I've read the first two issues and they are actually pretty good — although, again, Agents of SHIELD did it better (and they are currently facing the aftermath of remembering two lives).

See, I get the point it's trying to make, but that point seems like it's already been made in Winter Soldier, without the massively unpopular move of turning Captain America himself into the mole— I don't see how anyone at the company thought that was going to be anything but controversial. If you're trying to shock people and comment on rising authoritarian sentiment in America and around the world, then maybe I can understand where the writer's coming from. But if that's the point, then it doesn't sound like it's coming through.

Any any rate. As with Secret Invasion, the current season of AOS is already doing this well enough that I'll be glad if the movies steer well clear of it.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70342: May 10th 2017 at 4:22:42 PM

Even without "maybe Nazis are okay people" trappings and insensitive things the creator has said, the concept just reeks of "we're so out of ideas."
I'm pretty sure he never said that. The things people say about Nick Spencer are often taken out of context or are outright lies. The only thing he's defended is the right for Nazis to have freedom of speech.

Also, the whole "Cap is brainwashed to be a Nazi" was actually a storyline from back in the '70s, too. I know most current fans haven't read it, but Cap is literally brainwashed into being a Nazi. Sure, it only lasts one issue, but that's because we're in the era of decompressed stories now.

"What if Spider-Man... wasn't spider?"
Okay, this was funny.

edited 10th May '17 4:22:54 PM by alliterator

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#70343: May 10th 2017 at 4:23:39 PM

What if Batman wasn't man?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#70344: May 10th 2017 at 4:34:07 PM

Batman's never been a man. The core conceit of Batman is being an emotionally-broken manchild.

My various fanfics.
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#70346: May 10th 2017 at 7:46:40 PM

What if the Punisher... didn't punish?

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#70347: May 10th 2017 at 7:47:40 PM

What if Captain America...wasn't a captain?

What if Cyclops...had two eyes?

What if Squirrel Girl...was a boy?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#70348: May 10th 2017 at 7:54:04 PM

What if Iron Man...wasn't Iron?

This summer, see Tony Stark as you've never seen him before: as a mighty lumberjack! But one day, he discovers that the wood he's been chopping is being sold under the table to overseas terrorists. For heating. With nowhere else to turn, he carves himself a mighty suit and takes the fight to them!

You haven't seen anything until you've seen a man dressed like an oak tree punch ISIS in the jaw.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#70349: May 10th 2017 at 7:54:17 PM

What if Uatu the Watcher... didn't watch?

He's too busy posting memes on social media now.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70350: May 10th 2017 at 7:55:39 PM

Uatu the Liker. The Retweeter. The Lurker.


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