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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70101: May 6th 2017 at 6:59:38 PM

edited 6th May '17 7:01:23 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70102: May 6th 2017 at 7:00:42 PM

What do you honestly think of the Civil War in Captain America: Civil War? Do youbenuinely believe it was in any way necessary? I contend that it was a needless subplot and the movie really boils down to Zemo, Stark and Rogers all have shitty pasts. I don't think it at any point really touched on the issues in the original comic.
I think Zemo elevated the Civil War, but I don't think Zemo caused it. Without Zemo, Cap may have signed the Accords, but there would have been friction and as soon as Bucky was found, he would have gone off to rescue him without any permission from any council.

The original comic had a better premise, yes — that all superheroes are inherently dangerous, therefore they need to register and get trained before either working for SHIELD or retiring — but the writing botched it by having Tony immediately turn around and create a secret gulag in the Negative Zone and then clone his friend and so on (the movie fixed this by having the prison the creation of General Ross, who I totally believe would make a Guantanamo for supers). Both Tony and Cap should have had good points and bad points, like the movie, but Tony was so overblown in being an asshole that it just didn't work.

It took Matt Fraction writing Tony Stark and literally erasing his memories of the Civil War in order to redeem him.

edited 6th May '17 7:01:53 PM by alliterator

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70103: May 6th 2017 at 7:04:37 PM

[up][up] Okay, I'm sorry. It's hard to tell intent or tone in text and, as I'm sure we're all aware, thingsc can get ugly when debating these movies.

So, sorry again.I'm too defensive given that I am coming at this from the obvious opposition side. I don't want to be brushed off as some mindless trolll, I do want to try and engage in arguments about the quality of these movies.Kinda feltlike that was happening so I jumped the gun.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#70104: May 6th 2017 at 7:07:37 PM

Adric: I think ben affleck is going to stare a superhero movie....daredevil I guess, I hope for him, shame DC didnt get him.

"I agree with that assessment100%. They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot is not a criticism I use often but it defines this movie. "

I dont think they wasted the plot is just using a debate about acountbaility really goes well for the genre who thrives in being anti authoritaran and people taking justice on their on hands, I just thin the movie is better when its cut from the other, the more continuity it reference, the worst it get.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70105: May 6th 2017 at 7:20:18 PM

[up][up] I don't think anyone considers you a troll, they just think some of your arguments are bit too overblown. But this is getting off-topic.

Hey, Blade II is coming out soon! I wonder if the director will direct any other comic book movies.

edited 6th May '17 7:21:05 PM by alliterator

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70106: May 6th 2017 at 7:24:23 PM

I really wish they would make a Sin City sequel.

I legit just learned about this. No idea if it's any good. The first film was one of the best CBM's ever. It's really underrated and forgotten in the wake of all these superhero movies the last decade.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70107: May 6th 2017 at 7:28:05 PM

I legit just learned about this. No idea if it's any good.
I've never seen it, but Rotten Tomatoes has it at 42%, so I'm guessing it's not as good as the first. (They have the first at 78%.)

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#70108: May 6th 2017 at 7:30:38 PM

The usual issue with you, Nikkolas, is more than you can come across as condescending very often in these arguments. Eg. You once tried to argue that maybe people just really don't understand the hidden brilliance of Batman v. Superman, implicitly because they're too stubborn or too stupid to see it, which is the kind of thing that does nothing except insult everyone you're trying to engage in a debate with. And that's never the best tactic.

As for actual superhero news: I thought Chris Evans is rumored to be playing Human Torch in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie. Good thing too, because that man can't play a serious role to save his life. He should stay playing dumb jocks, that's where he's best.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70109: May 6th 2017 at 7:41:12 PM

Chris Evans? That guy from Not Another Teen Movie? That's terrible! #NotMyJohnny!

(And yes, that is Alex Danvers. I know, I was surprised, too.)

edited 6th May '17 7:43:26 PM by alliterator

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70110: May 6th 2017 at 7:47:07 PM

[up][up][up] Your post made me curious. As you have no doubt noticed, I like the DCEU which puts me at odds with RT it seems. But anyway, hearing those scores made me Google and I found this. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/guides/comics_and_graphic_novels_vs_the_critics/#

I can't express how much it hurts me to see Superman fucking Returns on this list and not MOS. Why God, why?

And WANTED? REALLY? It has fuck all to do with the comic! I know this is off-topic but we don'thavea "general comic book movies" thread.

I ain't trusting this goddam site.

[up][up] True. I know I've said some dumb, assholish things. I was too....jaded and wanted people to like the movie I liked and that wasn't going to happen. It gets frustrating. It's no excuse but it was my reasoning at the time. Still, I'm sorry.

But anyway, why are they trying AGAIN to make another F4 movie?Just give up.

edited 6th May '17 7:47:43 PM by Nikkolas

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#70111: May 6th 2017 at 7:53:42 PM

Fidelity to the source material and actual quality can be mutually exclusive. That's why you'll find many people who argue the Tim Burton Batman movies are shitty adaptations but solid action flicks on their own merits.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70112: May 6th 2017 at 8:14:24 PM

And WANTED? REALLY? It has fuck all to do with the comic! I know this is off-topic but we don'thavea "general comic book movies" thread.
I'm actually glad Wanted had nothing to do with the comic, because the comic was terrible.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70113: May 6th 2017 at 8:22:05 PM

Simple, then. Don't call it Wanted.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70114: May 6th 2017 at 8:37:54 PM

They bought the rights to the comic, so they can title it whatever they want. Same reason that I, Robot is titled that, even though it has jack all to do with the book.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70115: May 6th 2017 at 8:40:02 PM

I'm so angry over that and World War Z.

At least three angry.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70116: May 6th 2017 at 8:51:16 PM

[up][up] Most people would say you have an obligation to the work you're adapting.

I would say that ,anyway.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70117: May 6th 2017 at 8:54:53 PM

Why can't you get that the comic was garbage? There's nothing wrong adaptations that take the best ideas from the original and leave the shit on the floor.

edited 6th May '17 8:55:33 PM by VeryMelon

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70118: May 6th 2017 at 9:04:09 PM

Because the most interesting idea in the comic was how supervillains united and killed all the heroes and then took over the world.

I never said it was a good comic but that doesn't make the movie any better just because it's different. It just makes it both a bad adaptation and a bad movie.

edited 6th May '17 9:05:02 PM by Nikkolas

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70120: May 6th 2017 at 9:10:12 PM

Millar really loves that plot.

He used it in Old Man Logan too.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#70121: May 6th 2017 at 9:13:17 PM

Most people would say you have an obligation to the work you're adapting.
Adaptations don't have an obligation to adapt everything. There are some adaptations that only adapt a few things and change everything else. It doesn't make them any less an adaptation, it just means that the writers and directors decided to go in a completely different direction.

Take Blade Runner, for example. It's an adaptation of the Philip K. Dick novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, but it changes things quite a bit. It keeps the central premise — the main character is hired to hunt down and kill replicants — but changes nearly everything else. Is it still an adaptation? Yes.

Wanted adapted some bits from the comic — namely, it was about a guy recruited into a group of villains. It changes pretty much everything else. Is it still an adaptation? Sure, just a looser one. Just like Captain America: Civil War was a loose adaptation of the Civil War comic. Just like Logan is loosely based on Old Man Logan.

...man, they've loosely adapted a shit ton of Mark Millar's comics, haven't they?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#70122: May 6th 2017 at 9:16:52 PM

You fools are just making him more powerful.

Now his booby trapped womb book is going to be a movie.

You fools. You damned fools.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#70123: May 6th 2017 at 9:22:13 PM

I feel like this is becoming a bit off topic.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#70124: May 6th 2017 at 9:24:06 PM

If you just take the 25% or so of Mark Millar's work that's good, it actually ends up being pretty damn good. It's just...the rest.

edited 6th May '17 9:46:20 PM by Unsung

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70125: May 6th 2017 at 10:57:27 PM

https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/05/ranking-dissected-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/2/

Found this while Googling to see if what I had heard was right.That Winter Soldier was considered the best MCU movie. Bucky was one of the best parts of CW, figured I should maybe watch Winter Soldier.

But in the meantime, Iron Man 3 being in second place seems like a controversial choice.

It is nice to see Incredible Hulk way down at the bottom.


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