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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I do say the same thing about Batman. Usually, what he brings to the table is authoral overcompensation. "F*ck you, Batman's awesome, he just took down Green Lantern in one punch 'cause f*ck you, that's why."
Black Widow and James Bond do both overlap in the form of both being superspies, but the thing about Black Widow is that she actually has infiltration skills. Bond's version of spying involves name-dropping himself at every opportunity, being smarmy to make everyone want to punch him, and then fleeing the scene in a trail of explosions.
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1. You're not helping your case by pointing out how Banner is a mass of neuroses who also happens to have nigh-infinite strength. I'm aware of Fixit aka Mobster Hulk, as well as the times Banner's consciousness has been shut down completely and it was just a mindless thing that was unleashed on the world. The Hulk is a danger, always and forever.
2.I was making fun of a quote from Whedon about Punisher.
The Hulk is a far greater evil than The Punisher ever is because he's far greater danger than Frank could ever be outside of What Ifs.
3. Ultron was a fucking joke. The final climactic fight had our heroes demolishing Ultron with ease, to the tune of comedy. Then Vision casually kills the final one in anticlimactic fair and boom, crisis averted. The Hulk was not necessary.
4. Who created Ultron? Who is explicitly likened to Ultron's fathr? What did Ultron come close to accomplishing? Tony Stark wanted to make a world-controlling AI, he created a world-destroying AI. Sounds like father of genocide to me.
edited 6th May '17 7:44:43 AM by Nikkolas
Well I mean your first post in this thread was coming in here to say how much you hate Joss Whedon because he supposedly hated Age of Ultron (which turned out to be a misconception on your part). That coupled with your other stuff (including the derailing in the Runaways thread) makes it seem like you've got some kinda obsessive hate thing for him going on.
Fair enough. Sorry if I sounded overly aggressive or defensive.
I wouldn't call it an obsession - more like I've just opened my eyes recently. Been paying more attention to his work, his ideas, his completely overrated level of talent. He's seen as a genius - a noble genius even, because giving women superpowers makes them strong female protagonists.
So, I guess I am on a bit of an anti-Whedon kick. But how can I be anything else when I watched two MCU movies and the one that he had nothing to do with, was infinitely superior?
edited 6th May '17 8:02:46 AM by Nikkolas
Well these were the first MCU films I've watched in 5 years because of the first Avengers putting me off so completely. I don't deny I'm biased - I'm told constantly how amazing the MCU is and I've seen very little of any of that. It gets exasperating.
But I liked Thor and I liked Civil War so clearly my problem is mostly with Joss Whedon. The Buffy magic worked in Buffy because it was a teen drama. A coming-of-age story that just happened to have vampires and demons and cyborgs and sexy goddesses.
But for an "epic" story featuring a highly disturbed doctor, a World War 2 veteran, a god (that is actually just a sufficiently advanced alien? I dunno what's going on with Thor) and so-on, I don't think his type of writing works at all. Ultron is basically Whedon dialogue in one character. Split second he's funny, next split second he's (trying to be) scary. It's impossible to maintain a tone or emotional connection.
I don't know about anyone else but Punisher having his spleen ruptured by Molly Hayes was one of the funniest things I've ever seen
Forever liveblogging the AvengersIt ranks among the dumbest depictions of the Punisher because it features him attempting to murder children because they chatted with the Kingpin and are therefore obviously dangerous assassins or something - it's been a long time since I've read it - but it's definitely a hilarious moment.
And to be fair, there's really not a way to have the Punisher fight the Runaways that isn't going to be pants-on-head stupid. Let's You and Him Fight gets really, really uncomfortable when your protagonists are under the legal driving age.
edited 6th May '17 8:48:51 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
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Actually, it's two-fold:
A: He thinks they're working for the Kingpin.
B: They stole something. Theft is a criminal act. Jeez Louis, that's up there with Frank firing a machine-gun at people because they were littering. That's something a PARODY Punisher would do!
edited 6th May '17 9:00:29 AM by fredhot16
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.They're also the children of a sinister criminal cabal that attempted to end the world.
Don't remember if he knew that but that is the context for the book.
Still, it is hilarious. Especially since it cuts back to him later and he's still on the rooftop clutching himself in pain. Possibly wondering if he's going to pee blood later.
Shame the rest of Whedon's run didn't live up to that glorious high. It was overall kind of really stupid and I don't care for it at all.
edited 6th May '17 8:58:57 AM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersAlso, the moment when Molly punchs the Punisher was fucking awesome.
It's a bit of different beast this time. While there are scenes with bigger emotional hits, the flow of the plot is a lot quicker and more focused on the quirkiness of it, so it still feels like a more bombastic and high-action story even though it's doing things that are a bit weightier. Even the way it handles threats and such is very different, let's singularly driven and more a combination of several antagonistic plots firing at different times - reminded me a bit of Return Of The Jedi.
It does a better job of having its emotional moments have emotional fallout than most other superhero movies, though, despite being more on the lighthearted side overall. The movie has a lot of heart.
edited 6th May '17 9:55:35 AM by KnownUnknown
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1. Fair enough, I concede Hulk is more child than animal.
2. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me fifty million times, shame on me. There can be no accidents when it comes to the Hulk killing people because everyone knows that the Hulk is unstable. Banner knows this more than anyone.
Didn't he do self-imposed exile in this verse? My girlfriend told me Planet Hulk is going to be happening in the MCU. So evidently, Bruce himself acknowledges he is nothing but a threat t oall mankind. That is something you could never say about Frank Castle.
3. When you create a child, you are doing nothing but creating a blank slate. Hitler's father was an asshole, by the way, but we can't say he engineered Hitler to be anything because that's not how human reproduction works.
Tony, on the other hand. created a new breed of lifeform. He had no knowledge of the forces with which he was messing and he most pointedly didn't care. Ultron was a rush job because Stark couldn't let things like "oversight" or "caution" stop him.
Ultron is clearly a Woobie, the results of an arrogant madman trying to play god. Stark is Dr. Frankenstein and Ultron is the monster.
4. I grew up on Buffy. I watched it ever since the first episode of season 1 debuted. I'm very proud of that fact. I can say I was there since the beginning.
But I don't think Joss does women amazingly well. I wouldn't even care if he wasn' constantly held up as the paragon of liberal artists.
edited 6th May '17 10:14:47 AM by Nikkolas
Banner's had the Hulk under control since Avengers. Since he came onboard with S.H.I.E.L.D., the only instances in which the Hulk raged out of control were both under the influence of mind-altering effects - Loki's scepter the first time, Scarlet Witch the second.
The mission in Sokovia that kicks off Age of Ultron demonstrates that they've been putting the Hulk into combat zones effectively in the interim. They even have a phrase for it: code green.
As for Planet Hulk, it's sort of happening in Thor: Ragnarok. But with Thor. Hulk shows up as one of the gladiators, but we don't know the extent of his involvement or why he's there. You probably shouldn't try to make debate points off of second-hand scraps of information regarding films that haven't been released.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I was basing it off the end of AOU where he leaves everyone. He obviously didn't ditch them for the lulz. I figured maybe he realized what a trheat he was to every living human being, or maybe he was mad at his girlfriend for trying to kill him. That's still really fucked up. I brought up Hulk leaving to my girlfriend who said Planet Hulk was happening.
Also kinda fucked up that they just keep forgetting Betty exists. Again, Whedon doesn't get the Hulk.
edited 6th May '17 10:26:54 AM by Nikkolas

I don't think that the contract Sony has for any of those properties allows crossovers.