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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I never get the claim Daredevil made things worse in season 2 of Daredevil. He stopped the Hand, folks. That's a win.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Fair enough, but I still infinitely prefer Luke to Matt. Maybe it's the personality, I don't know. Luke seems to fill a bit of the "average guy" persona that makes me like him. Like, he seems like somebody you'd share a drink with.
He didn't stop the Hand, he was too busy whining about his no-kill code while Elektra, Stick, and Frank killed them off.
edited 2nd May '17 7:07:36 PM by AdricDePsycho
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?![]()
No, he didn't. He narrowly survived starting shit with the hand because the Punisher showed up to kill ninjas for him. Then Stick took out Nobu.
The Hand was stopped and Dare Devil was nearby.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Except the Hand is still around and they got what they want. Nobu and a bunch of faceless ninjas are dead but they have Elektra and they have their giant hole and they're still collecting blood
It wasn't much a victory for Matt. Not even a moral one because he needed Frank and Stick and their murdery ways to fight the Hand
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
Yeah, Matt kinda just...dicked around. He was barely there to help with a trial nobody but him wanted and it kinda looked like he just fucked up the trial before he really began cross-examination.
He wasn't very good at balancing his work/vigilante life. And was kinda of a dick about it.
edited 2nd May '17 7:14:33 PM by fredhot16
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.Well yes, the Hand is still around, but he took out Nobu and neither Elektra nor Stick would have succeeded at anything without him. Stick was, in fact, about to be executed when Matt saved him, same as Frank. So, without Matt: The Irishman Gangboss kills Frank, Stick gets tortured to death, Elektra doesn't figure out anything about the Hand's plot (she doesn't have super-hearing as you'll recall) and thus Nobu's plan goes on without a hitch and the D.A's corruption scheme goes on without any obstacles because Matt's the only reason Foggy and Karen took on the D.A.
I remain confused.
edited 2nd May '17 7:16:54 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I've been saying since season one that Matt's No-Kill policy is depicted really weirdly because, generally, when a hero raves on and on about the importance of not killing people, we're expected to think that they're right.
Quite the opposite, the show seems to go out of its way to depict it as Matt's flaw.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I also forgot Matt saves an entire hospital full of people from the Hand and the other truckload of people Nobu is using for his resurrections. He doesn't stop the Hand entirely but he surely throws a monkey wrench in their plans.
Matt was arguably a dick in season 2 of Daredevil, but it's odd to say he was "useless" or "counter-productive" just because he needed help. I remember the same criticism being leveled against season 1 of Daredevil and it was just as false then as it is now. The problem with season 2 is that the Hand's goals are very nebulous and unexplained, so it's hard to gauge what Matt is stopping, but he's definitely stopping (or derailing) something.
I'm also so-so on the idea of the show not caring about DD's no-kill code. I think the show does care to an extent: I will go to my grave saying the show meant Grotto's death and funeral to be a Alas, Poor Villain moment to show Frank wasn't entirely in the right.
But I also think season 2 tries too hard to justify Punisher's/Elektra's/Stick's murderous perspective.
edited 2nd May '17 7:33:51 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I think it more or less shows that neither answer is really "right". There's no denying that Frank/Stick/Elektra's methods can work when they kill the right people, but at the same time they're not really the best people to be deciding who lives and who dies; they're singular individuals who can't control themselves. Frank killing Grotto isn't portrayed as anything better than a brutal, unnecessary execution, scumbag though Grotto was. Same with Elektra killing that younger Hand ninja Matt had disarmed.
Not to mention how hostile and bloody the streets become with Punisher around; the Kitchen Irish going on a rampage just to find him at the start of episode 4 is a pretty effective reminder that escalating things is going to be met in kind by the criminals, and innocents are going to suffer the consequences.
edited 2nd May '17 7:57:37 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Matt's fatal flaw is leading a double life, not knowing who he wants to be. His no-kill policy is because he's Catholic. He doesn't really need much convincing to kill someone— but what he wants to be talked off that ledge. Taking a life in cold blood will damn him to hell, and once that line is crossed, he won't be able to stop. That's his struggle.
I don't feel like it comes across very well in Season 2 because it goes on too long without really going anywhere. We take nine episodes to foil the Hand and ruin Matt's life, which is a fine setup for future drama, but a poor use of your main character. Matt ends up becoming a secondary figure in his own life and series. That doesn't work.
I also love the second half of Luke Cage. Yeah, Diamondback was over the top and goofy, but it was something that I hadn't seen in these shows before. It helped to break up the structure these shows have adhered to. Introduce the idea of the villain early, who is a calm, powerful, amoral man in a business suit. There's a back and forth of who has the upper hand between hero and villain. We slowly discover more about the villain until finally the main character overcomes them in the end. That describes the first season of Daredevil and Jessica Jones, along with Iron Fist when that came out. And with Luke Cage, it's kind of what's expected with Cottonmouth early in the season. At the start, he feels like another Fisk, but then he's abruptly killed, Diamondback shows up and suddenly our hero has to deal with someone about as crazy as the Joker.
When I was watching Diamondback, I kept imagining a much more subdued take on the character, exactly as written, quiet reserved, more opaque, somebody where you might not realize is crazy until you get him talking. Someone who's always been in the shadows, has gotten used to operating in secret, now finally getting to stand in the spotlight. That could've been neat. Too much like Fisk, ultimately, though I can imagine it being played differently (I'm imagining a young Forrest Whitaker, circa Ghost Dog or so, and what he might have done with the part).
I kind of like the idea of continuing to play up the Fisk comparison, too, the notion that you have Cottonmouth as someone who's trying to do what Fisk did but without the same savvy or resources, and then Diamondback as a lengthier exploration of Fisk's Villainous Breakdown.
I think Iron Fist succeeded best at playing switcheroo with the villains. IF had the interesting idea of pingponging between Madam Gao, Bakuto and the Meachums every few episodes before finally settling on Harold as the Final Boss. Its flaw was that one of those three (Bakuto) had a very flat actor and uninspired direction, but the idea was pretty solid and created a much more stable pace for the season than LC 's and DD's abrupt switches.
Also: It is somewhat ironic DD is so hung-up on not killing people because the Catholic Church generally has a broader view of "Thou Shall Not Kill", taking the (more accurate to the original meaning) interpretation of "Thou Shall not Murder" (i.e self-defense is alright).
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I still think Bakuto's flatness is entirely deliberate, a consciously feigned air of harmlessness, and he's one of the better fighters on the show, so I kidn of liked the guy in spite of himself. He comes off as holding a lot back, was the impression I always got with him. Another reason why I'd like to see him square off with Matt, because I feel like Matt, in his civilian persona, does the same thing.
In the first season I assumed that Matt was okay with killing in self-defense (it's just that with his abilities he assumes he doesn't have to kill to win), but the second season muddies those waters quite a bit.
I think the idea of Bakuto sounding harmless, friendly and charismatic is fine. The problem is the actor just comes across as boring. Madam Gao grasps his concept of "seemingly harmless dude turning out to be a monster" better than him. I will agree that he had a fantastic fighting style, though.
As for DD, he seemed to be more alright with killing in the first season since killing Fisk was a plan he gave serious thought to for most of the season. It seems like his realization wanting to kill Fisk in the first season was wrong put his Thou Shall Not Kill into overdrive and second season he's kind of a zealot about it. Maybe in the third he'll scale it back and find middle ground.
edited 2nd May '17 9:40:30 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I watched a review that complained that Bakuto was beaten by Colleen who he had taught but that's classic martial artsy trope.
Also it would have sucked if Colleen had to sit back and watch someone else beat the person that tried to have all her blood sucked out.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI don't find Bakuto too dull for what he is— he's far from the worst actor on IF, though he's definitely a pretty weak villain and actor if you look at the rest of the Defenders shows. His being a watered-down copycat of Madame Gao is probably intentional, I suspect, but I'd agree that it's not doing him any favours.
I haven't seen either of these shows, but I want a Daredevil-related gag in Infinity War. Let's say Steve just couldn't help himself and has been doing some... freelance work. Being Nomad, basically. I doubt he'd use the name. I also doubt he'd have a 'costume', per se. But we did see him dressed all in black in the CW stinger (when he broke his team out of the Raft). So. We need to get the band back together. Someone tracks Steve down. Maybe they knew where was all along and just kept it to themselves. They catch up with him 'on the job' and see him in his black outfit, raise an eyebrow, and say "You been in Hell's Kitchen lately?".
Silly? Sure, but that's how I roll
.

To be honest that's both because Luke is more powerful and Cottonmouth has less resources than Kingpin and The Hand.