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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69651: May 2nd 2017 at 10:26:35 AM

The parts where he's a robot James Spader are pretty great, inherently so. The parts about him being only a few days old and thus somewhere between tantrum-throwing infant and 'You don't understand me!' teenage rebel are interesting, but end up feeling pretty half-baked.

AOU's problem is mostly trying to do too many things at once. They could all be interesting, but as it is, they're constantly competing for volume. Makes it hard to get invested.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#69652: May 2nd 2017 at 10:29:01 AM

I think the primary issue is that he doesn't give any Avenger a real fight. At the end of the Battle of New York, the Avengers look beaten to hell. At the end of AOU, Black Widow looks tired and that's about it. Ultron and Captain America fight to a standstill on the semi truck, when realistically that should be the fight of Steve's life (he takes several of Ultron's fingertip lasers to the chest and is knocked back, but seems otherwise just okay). At one point Black Widow is running over dozens of Ultron bodies with a truck. Remember, this is supposed to be an advanced AI designed to wage war in drone bodies. At the climax Ultron gives the taunt "All of you versus all of me" and is promptly beaten back two minutes later.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69653: May 2nd 2017 at 10:30:06 AM

Inhumans teaser poster. This better mean Black Bolt has a fucking costume.

[up]they also didn't do enough with his relationship with Tony.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69654: May 2nd 2017 at 10:32:00 AM

I agree that they tried to do too much. For instance, when he lashes out at Klaw over Tony Stark. He makes it clear that Stark's a sore spot for him, that this is a big emotional vulnerability of his.

This never really comes up again outside of brief gags like Vision's, "It's true, he hates you the most." They don't do anything with it. It's just there.

I agree that Ultron is best when his personality is a trainwreck, but the problem here is that it's his writing that's a trainwreck instead. He reeks of too many writers, seeming to change personalities from scene to scene.

edited 2nd May '17 10:33:00 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69655: May 2nd 2017 at 10:33:49 AM

The movie probably needed to be longer.

I'd speculate that trying to cut it down to shorter than the first Avengers movie was a transparently stupid decision.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69657: May 2nd 2017 at 10:49:09 AM

I love everything about Age of Ultron, but I can agree that more of it would just be an improvement.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#69658: May 2nd 2017 at 11:33:29 AM

Ultron as more blatantly unpredictable would be interesting. If not a "Joker robot", then more like a G La DOS outside her lab running on Insane Troll Logic.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69659: May 2nd 2017 at 12:51:09 PM

"Ah, you thought I was going to shoot you with bullets, but you couldn't have anticipated HOSTESS FRUIT PIES! Bask in their deliciousness!"

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69660: May 2nd 2017 at 12:59:06 PM

James Spader literally reading off the script from Portal would be worth paying to see.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69661: May 2nd 2017 at 1:01:59 PM

And Robert Downey Jr should just read lines from Cave Johnson. "Those of you helping us test the Repulsion Gel today, just follow the blue line on the floor. Those of you who volunteered to be injected with praying mantis DNA, I've got some good news and some bad news. Bad news is we're postponing those tests indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men. Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69662: May 2nd 2017 at 1:14:31 PM

Anyone would be hard-pressed to top J.K. Simmons as Cave Johnson.

That said, a golden opportunity was missed to have J.K. Simmons as Cave Johnson play Howard Stark.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69663: May 2nd 2017 at 4:10:26 PM

For instance, when he lashes out at Klaw over Tony Stark. He makes it clear that Stark's a sore spot for him, that this is a big emotional vulnerability of his.

This never really comes up again outside of brief gags like Vision's, "It's true, he hates you the most." They don't do anything with it. It's just there.

The same thing happened with Wanda. Her and Pietro's vendetta with Stark just kind of... stopped being a thing once Vision showed up, and her motivation gets zero closure. The two don't even ever have dialogue with one another, even in Civil War.

edited 2nd May '17 4:11:21 PM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69664: May 2nd 2017 at 4:35:00 PM

The whole film reeks of too many writers, too many scripts, too many rewrites.

Which is a pretty glaring f*cking problem when there was only one writer.

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69665: May 2nd 2017 at 4:40:07 PM

[up] Except there wasn't just one writer. There was the main writer and then there was the Marvel Studios Creative Committee, which basically hashed out the details to all the movies, even interfering in what the directors and writers wanted (see: Shane Black wanting a female villain and Perlmutter vetoing it). It was only after Age of Ultron came out that Kevin Feige was able to get rid of the Creative Committee and block Perlmutter from having any control over the creative content of the movies.

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#69666: May 2nd 2017 at 5:09:38 PM

I've said it once, and I'll say it a thousand times more:

Age of Ultron's writing is lazy. Ultron, as a character, disappointed. He isn't, wasn't and never will be a threat to the Avengers if they keep writing him (if they use him again) as a whimp whose plans are nonsensical and useless, whose intellect and skill of manipulation fall flat on their asses, and who lacks any sense of being a physical threat. Whedon messed up big time with him.

And, as I've said before, the movie would have been much better if it was called Age of Wanda.

And now I'm not even joking.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69667: May 2nd 2017 at 5:12:32 PM

Thus far the only script addition that we know was forced on Whedon was the idiotic Thor/Infinity Stones subplot, which was there as a compromise because Marvel didn't want any of the stuff about Hawkeye's farm and secret family.

Plus Ultron's daddy issues are defining part of his character in the comics as well, so I doubt the half-assed attempts at addressing it were forced on him.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69668: May 2nd 2017 at 6:38:11 PM

Finally. I've finally finished Luke Cage, and ya know what? The second half wasn't that bad. I went back and forth from hating Diamondback to kinda liking him, but, befitting the previous conversation, he's basically like Ultron: good concept and some good execution, but the majority of the ideas and the manner of execution for the character aren't done well. Hell, I kinda liked his stupid super suit in the last episode.

I actually went from liking Jessica Jones the most out of all the Defenders to liking Luke Cage the most. He reminds me a lot of Captain America, actually. He's not nearly as antiheroic as Matt or Jessica, he tries to act as a moral pillar, he refuses to compromise his principles, and hell, he even got his powers from an experimental procedure (which I think was meant to replicate the super soldier serum in the comic book version, correct?). Hell, in light of Civil War, I sometimes feel more respect for Luke compared to Cap.

All in all, I actually think this is around the same quality as Jessica Jones, depending on my mood. Some moments I like Luke Cage more, some moments I like Jessica Jones more. The villains are very good. Cottonmouth, right from the first episode, was great. Amazing performance. Mariah takes a bit but once Cottonmouth dies, she becomes such a slimy politician that I just love hating her. Shades, I can't decide if I love him more than Wesley or if I love Wesley more than him. They fill similar roles, but Shades has his own agenda going on while staying pretty badass. Plus, gotta dig a man with such cool shades.

Misty and Claire were great supporting characters, especially Claire. I think this is her best showing out of all the Netflix shows. It's quite fun, really. Though I have one gripe: that one guy who is shown selling tapes about the Battle of New York, or as they call it, "The Incident". Nothing against the guy, he's just a background character, but why the fuck did they choose a name as goddamn stupid as "The Incident"? It's just such a bland as fuck name, and given the Battle of New York is supposed to be this big calamity along the lines of, say, 9/11, calling it simply "The Incident" just robs it of its importance.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#69669: May 2nd 2017 at 6:46:32 PM

It's supposed to represent what the Common People think of the Chitauri Invasion.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#69670: May 2nd 2017 at 6:46:59 PM

Going back to my ranking of the Defenders in terms of Heroicness, I'm pretty sure I ranked Luke in second place behind Matt. Tactics aside, Matt chose to protect New York of his own volition and out of no greater desire than "I want to help my city." Luke had to be dragged by the teeth into helping people, despite being almost-literally invincible.

My various fanfics.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#69671: May 2nd 2017 at 6:48:50 PM

The problem with Diamondback mainly is that he feels way more like a comic book villain than the tone of the show really allows for, creating a sort of awkward dissonance where the show can't decide if it's doing a modern take on the franchise or embracing its weird roots. That being said, he is very entertaining and hammy, and I too like his stupid "pimp stormtrooper" suit. If you're gonna make him feel like a comic book villain you might as well go whole hog.

That being said, Mariah and Shades are my favorite villains from Luke Cage. In fact, Mariah might be my second-favorite villain right behind Kingpin. In particular I love how her language goes from stuck-up and "above all this gangster stuff" to extremely coarse by the end of the show as she gradually transforms into Mama Mabel 2.0.

I still liked Luke Cage's second half just fine, even though there were some flaws. But then again, I also didn't mind Daredevil Season 2's second half, so I apparently have a pretty unrefined palate when it comes to this stuff.

edited 2nd May '17 6:54:46 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69672: May 2nd 2017 at 6:52:07 PM

The second half wasn't that bad

You're dead to me.

edited 2nd May '17 6:52:23 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#69673: May 2nd 2017 at 6:54:20 PM

Hey, someone else doesn't think the second half sucks ass. I also agree that Diamondback doesn't really work for the tone Luke Cage established but, as a comic book fan looking for comic book cartoon characters in my comic book adaptations, I had zero issue with that.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#69674: May 2nd 2017 at 6:57:25 PM

I think my favorite episode of Luke Cage might be the nightclub hostage situation. I forget the name.

Especially at the end when Claire goes and stomps on Shades' shades. That was awesome. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69675: May 2nd 2017 at 7:01:13 PM

I get that calling it "The Incident" is what the common people in the MCU would call it. I also think it's stupid to call it that because it just feels...I dunno, awkward? Like, you don't see people calling 9/11 "The Incident" or something.

As for Matt and Luke, honestly, even if Matt was into the hero angle from the beginning while Luke had to be coerced, Luke was still far more effective and less of an ass than Matt was. Matt kinda made shit worse in Season 2 of Daredevil and Elektra, Stick, and the Punisher were better at fighting crime than him. Luke was able to effectively neuter Cottonmouth's operation a quarter of the way through the season.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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