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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69601: May 1st 2017 at 6:02:07 AM

I don't know, I still see it as him carrying them to safety. We actually see Quicksilver's speed whoosh pass through Clint and the kid, implying that he doesn't just shove but physically moves them behind the car.

If he moved the car, there would be no speed whoosh through Clint. If he just pushed them, Clint couldn't remain bunkered down in the exact same position.

This is the biggest problem with the scene. It's so unclear exactly what is happening that there are multiple different interpretations, each with holes as big as the others.

edited 1st May '17 6:02:34 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69602: May 1st 2017 at 6:03:28 AM

And as multitudinous as the holes in Quicksilver?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69603: May 1st 2017 at 6:59:40 AM

A dark thing to note is that the holes we see in Quicksilver seem to have gone all the way through. Which means that Clint shielding the kids with his body would have been a futile gesture anyway.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69604: May 1st 2017 at 7:51:30 AM

I remember Whedon said something (and I wish I remembered the article I saw this in) where he talked about how he filmed a scene of Quicksilver at the end with the new Avengers lineup with a new outfit on him. Or something like that, I might be remembering wrong.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#69605: May 1st 2017 at 8:10:13 AM

Someone recut the trailer to GOTG 1...as a DCEU film.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69606: May 1st 2017 at 8:15:21 AM

Hmm...the editing is off but it did kinda remind me of Batman v. Superman.

It's missing Star Lord saying "So what are we? Some kind of...Guardians of the Galaxy?"

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69607: May 1st 2017 at 8:34:22 AM

"This is Gamora. She's got my back..."

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69609: May 1st 2017 at 8:40:50 AM

The bad editing is still better than Suicide Squad's.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69610: May 1st 2017 at 8:58:43 AM

Grain of salt since toys are hit or miss, but it looks like the Fenris wolf is indeed in Ragnarok as was rumored a while back. Possible spoilers I guess.

edited 1st May '17 8:59:07 AM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#69611: May 1st 2017 at 10:45:29 AM

Noooooooooooooooooo....I hate toy spoilers. I always do my very best to avoid them.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69612: May 1st 2017 at 10:57:48 AM

I remember Whedon said something (and I wish I remembered the article I saw this in) where he talked about how he filmed a scene of Quicksilver at the end with the new Avengers lineup with a new outfit on him. Or something like that, I might be remembering wrong.

I definitely remember reading him say he didn't think Marvel would actually let him do it since getting permission to kill a superhero in a franchise like this has a lot of considerations that need to be taken into account.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69613: May 1st 2017 at 10:58:55 AM

Yeah, I remember that too. Something about he didn't expect Marvel to actually let him do it and he filmed two versions, one with Quicksilver dying and one with him living.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#69614: May 1st 2017 at 1:03:02 PM

And Ultron was doing more than just surviving on the internet — he was actively trying to hack into the nuclear arsenal, but JARVIS had been stopping him.

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that little bit of stupidity. Nuclear weapons can't be hacked. Period. They're airgapped, locked in bunkers, and intentionally decades out of date. Trying to hack a nuke is only slightly more realistic than trying to hack a rock. It's just not going to work.

Now, if the plot was that Ultron was looking for nuclear missile silos so he could throw drones at them, then that would be interesting. Supergirl (2015) did something like that, and it ended with an internet villain hiding in a general's cell phone when he went to visit a silo. But as it is, it's just wrong. Nukes don't work that way, and that's all there is to it.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69615: May 1st 2017 at 1:05:41 PM

This is all reminding me that Ultron was just a total wash of a villain. It didn't help that the constant foreshadowing for Thanos made me think of Ultron as little more than a filler villain to begin with.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69616: May 1st 2017 at 1:07:47 PM

Even setting that aside, here's the thing about JARVIS stopping Ultron from hacking the nukes: it contributes noting to the rising tension of the story because it exists offscreen. Show, Don't Tell.

Things that happen offscreen do very little to accelerate the tension of the story.Things that don't happen offscreen do even less. That's what this amounted to: J.A.R.V.I.S. was successfully preventing offscreen events from happening.

Not only was he utterly ineffectual in direct combat, he also couldn't even beat a primitive human AI in a digital fistfight despite the movie going out of its way to talk up how much more super-advanced the AI he was based on is.

edited 1st May '17 1:08:14 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#69617: May 1st 2017 at 1:15:23 PM

I think the bit about nuclear launch codes was less about presenting a real threat of Ultron actually launching nukes and more about just answering the question "why doesn't Ultron just nuke 'em?" before it can be asked.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69618: May 1st 2017 at 1:21:23 PM

Nukes are safe from computers because they are more likely to be secured by bike locks set to 0000 instead.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#69619: May 1st 2017 at 2:07:01 PM

[up] Also that the software the launch systems run on is so horrifically outdated that there's no way Ultron is backwards compatible with it.

Sidenote: I believe there has been some recent efforts to update it over the past few years, but at least until then they were still using floppy disks to store data. Not the 1.44 MB floppies that are encased in plastic, the older real floppy disks.

edited 1st May '17 2:07:18 PM by Falrinn

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69620: May 1st 2017 at 2:09:06 PM

In fairness, this is a very comic book mistake to make. The EMH cartoon made the same mistake and had all the world's nukes able to be launched and disabled from the SHIELD helicarrier.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69621: May 1st 2017 at 2:18:41 PM

I figure "Someone hacks the nukes through the internet" is such a common stock plot because of the popularity of WarGames. Even then I'm sure how the boy hacked into the missile systems was incredibly inaccurate, right?

edited 1st May '17 2:18:57 PM by comicwriter

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#69622: May 1st 2017 at 2:22:30 PM

I'm fine with writing it off as a comic book thing because there's also flying robots and a giant rage monster, as well as a fictional hub for the entire Internet in the film.

I am, however, less okay with, as Tobias said, the entire Ultron v. Hacker Jarvis subplot being all offscreen. It is pretty weird that something as big as nuclear extinction is just a background topic of discussion in the film.

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#69623: May 1st 2017 at 3:03:26 PM

About Quicksilver's death:

I think it's fairly obvious that he moved the car behind Hawkeye and the kid. The car was also riddled with bullets on one side.

Which begs the question of why didn't he drove them out of the way. I mean, Quicksilver's speed is really all over the place. In one scene he's fast enough to see and react to a bullet going upwards and not be affected by gravity, at another he's not able to save Hawkeye without dying, and at yet another (and the most impressive in my opinion) is that he's shown to be able to snatch a bad guy's gun while he's shooting at him, remove the cartridge, then remove every single bullet from the cartridge and then line them up on the desk in a very neat line, with the gun and the cartridge beside them, and then move back in front of the bad guy in a fraction of a second. A fraction of a second.

Don't tell me that a speedster that can do that cannot dodge a rain of bullets, or at least shove himself and to other people out of harm's way, because I'd call bullshit on that one.

As I've said multiple times, Age of Ultron was reeeaally lazy with it's writing.

edited 1st May '17 3:14:12 PM by ExplosiveLion

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69624: May 1st 2017 at 3:12:29 PM

That machine gun was riddling the entire ground leading up to them with bullets, car included.

The way he's standing after the fact, his arms are pointing more at Hawkeye and the kid rather than the car, or so it appears to me. And I just don't know why you'd try and move a car instead of people— you've got ne option that's obviously a lot lighter and easier to move.

edited 1st May '17 3:46:22 PM by Unsung

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#69625: May 1st 2017 at 3:43:47 PM

Establishing the limitations of a character and at what point something goes from survivable to livable is difficult enough without superpowers. As brought up, whether or not he survived was left in question while filming, limiting exactly what they could do with the character's death. As a result it's a very telegraphed and staged heroic moment for the character, and promptly doesn't really matter with the rest of the story. It probably would have panned out better in one of two ways. First is give him a more grandiose death, something like Boromir where he continues to fight well after being fatally injured. Second is a more subdued death, he is fighting and acting heroic in general and is killed in a more random event rather than specifically rescuing Hawkeye.


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