TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69401: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:51:51 AM

Because he's a paranoid asshole, he used this as an opportunity to install a killswitch in his f*cking wife
I mean, is it paranoia when they are really out to get you? You say "He installed a killswitch in his wife, the fiend," I say "But she was a murderer and tried to kill him."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69402: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:54:18 AM

Just because they really are out to get you doesn't mean you're not paranoid.

Like, a crazy asshole with a bunker full of soup cans and shotguns doesn't stop being a crazy asshole just because the aliens actually did invade.

We actually have a trope for this.

edited 27th Apr '17 8:54:43 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#69403: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:15:33 AM

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the two Nick Furys? Besides the obvious of course.

This song needs more love.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69404: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:19:11 AM

Ultimate Nick Fury is way more of a morally dubious asshole, verging into outright Villain Protagonist territory at times. Again, everyone's kind of a dick in the Ultimate Universe.

Ironically in the last decade or so they began edging classic Fury down a similar characterization path.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#69405: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:24:11 AM

He'd gifted her an Iron Man suit of her own as a wedding present, but there were implants needed to control it. Because he's a paranoid asshole, he used this as an opportunity to install a killswitch in his f*cking wife. When she turned on him, he triggered the switch and killed her.

I know this sounds terrible, but that sounds really fucking funny.

edited 27th Apr '17 9:24:21 AM by VeryMelon

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69406: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:32:32 AM

He'd gifted her an Iron Man suit of her own as a wedding present, but there were implants needed to control it. Because he's a paranoid asshole, he used this as an opportunity to install a killswitch in his f*cking wife. When she turned on him, he triggered the switch and killed her.

Huh? No he didn't. He used the nanites to freeze her in place so he could knock her unconscious. It was Hawkeye who killed her after the fact while she was recovering in the hospital.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69407: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:35:11 AM

In broad terms, besides dubious morality, the difference is Ultimate Fury is the sleek modern superspy whilst 616 Fury is the tough-as-nails rough-on-the-edges WWII vet.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#69408: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:36:22 AM

[up][up][up]And then Ultron released a sex tape of her and Tony.

Seriously what did people see in the Ultimate Universe outside of Ultimate Spider-Man?

edited 27th Apr '17 9:39:22 AM by windleopard

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69409: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:39:48 AM

It was in an era where the idea of gritty, edgy reboots of popular characters hadn't yet become a cliched punchline, so a gritty revamp of the Avengers appealed to a surprisingly large number of people. It helps that the first two volumes also had gorgeous art.

That and, what people don't actually get is that the Avengers weren't hugely popular until relatively recently. When it launched Ultimates was actually wildly more successful than the mainstream Avengers book being published at the time.

edited 27th Apr '17 9:41:57 AM by comicwriter

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69410: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:42:28 AM

Ultimate universe's appeal was mostly modernizing characters more for the current age and aesthetic. This worked well in design aspects (with a lot of nifty new uniforms the movies often borrow) and a few storyline aspects (like Ultimate Thor just ditching Donald Blake wholesale and adopting his "sleveless" look).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#69411: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:44:04 AM

Ultimate Marvel had some good bits, but "never go full Ultimates" is good advice for a reason.

This place is careless.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69412: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:47:03 AM

The Ultimate universe went too far in trying to be 'realistically' dark, but it did open the door to modernized costumes and incorporating real-world elements in a way that the MCU leaned pretty heavily on in terms of making superheroes palatable to a wider audience. A lot of this cast of Avengers' designs and characterizations owe a pretty big debt to The Ultimates, like it or not.

So it wasn't all bad, is what I'm saying. Just...a lot of it.

edited 27th Apr '17 9:53:12 AM by Unsung

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69413: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:53:59 AM

I think Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch are even thanked in the credits of the first Captain America movie.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#69414: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:58:15 AM

Ultimate universe's appeal was mostly modernizing characters more for the current age and aesthetic.

So cannibal rapist Hulk, Hawkeye acting more like Bullseye and Russian femme fatale Black Widow where considered modern at some point?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69415: Apr 27th 2017 at 9:59:02 AM

The appeal at first.

Things got outta hand real fucking fast.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69416: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:08:23 AM

The best thing about the MCU has always been its ability to cherry-pick from all the various comic book ages. Ultimates had good looks, cinematic splash panels, and sharp dialogue. Mark Millar's general bad taste eventually won out and poisoned the cast, but there were still some ideas worth sifting from among the wreckage.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#69417: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:12:13 AM

[up][up][up] Well, the idea behind the Hulk is that he's this incredibly dangerous being that Banner should only let out when the Godzilla Threshold has been thoroughly crossed. Given that, actually having the Hulk do some really horrible things when he's let loose makes sense, to remind people why it should be such a move of last resort.

edited 27th Apr '17 10:12:38 AM by RavenWilder

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69418: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:14:32 AM

Yeah. Cannibal rapist Hulk was the writer's attempt at doing what they felt was a more realistic take on the character, as they didn't agree with the fact that the Hulk miraculously never kills innocent people during his rampages.

As for Black Widow yes, having two morally dubious black-ops agents actually act like morally dubious black-ops agents fit that same general mindset.

edited 27th Apr '17 10:15:38 AM by comicwriter

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#69419: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:28:21 AM

Doing a more violent, uncontrollable Hulk and then going for cannibal rapist is quite a leap in thought process.

edited 27th Apr '17 10:29:10 AM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69420: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:29:30 AM

And Black Widow was always a Russian femme fatale who started out as a villain, so I'm not sure that that should be an Ultimate-specific complaint. She's admittedly a full-on villain in The Ultimates, but the first two things never stopped being true in the main continuity.

[up]That's Mark Millar for you.

edited 27th Apr '17 10:30:09 AM by Unsung

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#69421: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:29:59 AM

As for Black Widow yes, having two morally dubious black-ops agents actually act like morally dubious black-ops agents fit that same general mindset.

Black Widow wasn't morally dubious. She was a villain.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69423: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:37:15 AM

The Ultimate Universe definitely had its ups and downs. Ups — Ultimate Spider-Man was one of the best takes on a younger, teen Spider-Man and also gave us Miles Morales. Warren Ellis's run on Ultimate Fantastic Four and his Ultimate Galactus trilogy were both pretty awesome (although the FF was then ruined by later writers). In fact, when it came to Warren Ellis, he was generally allowed to roam free in the Ultimate Universe and do what he wanted, which resulted in some pretty awesome things. Quoting from Ellis's trope page: "Ellis admitted that his Ultimate Comics Armor Wars miniseries was just essentially Marvel paying him for his Stream of consciousness writing. The result? Tony Stark beating on, in order - Dr. Wily with a MODOK in his head. Doctor Frankenstein in power armor. Master Chief ripoffs in the process of doing what the MC was canonically designed to do - slaughter protesters. And finally, Howard Stark, Sr. AKA "Ernest Borgnine in an ill-advised love triangle with farming machinery and the wreckage of a Lincoln Continental"."

Ultimatum kind of killed the Ultimate Universe for a bit, though, until Jonathan Hickman decided that what was needed was an Evil Reed Richards and that resulted in a pretty interesting storyline. Hickman eventually moved onto the 616 universe, but by then Marvel decided to basically merge the Ultimate and 616 together via Secret Wars.

edited 27th Apr '17 10:38:58 AM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69424: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:43:49 AM

[up][up][up]That's not the word she'd use. That's the point. She's someone who was raised to be a killer and has spent her entire life doing horrible things. Her doing them for the good guys doesn't automatically make her not terrible.

Doing a more violent, uncontrollable Hulk and then going for cannibal rapist is quite a leap in thought process.

If we're going off him being a huge lug with no inhibitions and nothing holding him back, then no, unfortunately, the rape thing is not that big a leap. That's why it's disturbingly common for real world rapists to claim it wasn't their fault, because the woman turned them on and they just couldn't help or control themselves. He's a giant brute doing whatever the fuck he wants. (It is also worth noting he never actually rapes anyone, I don't think.)

edited 27th Apr '17 10:46:05 AM by comicwriter

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#69425: Apr 27th 2017 at 10:55:35 AM

There's a worthwhile book to be told about a Captain America who comes from the 40s with the normal prejudices and caveats of the time.

Ultimate Captain "you think the 'A' on my head stands for 'France'" America is not that book.


Total posts: 186,763
Top