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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Just because they really are out to get you doesn't mean you're not paranoid.
Like, a crazy asshole with a bunker full of soup cans and shotguns doesn't stop being a crazy asshole just because the aliens actually did invade.
We actually have a trope for this.
edited 27th Apr '17 8:54:43 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the two Nick Furys? Besides the obvious of course.
This song needs more love.Ultimate Nick Fury is way more of a morally dubious asshole, verging into outright Villain Protagonist territory at times. Again, everyone's kind of a dick in the Ultimate Universe.
Ironically in the last decade or so they began edging classic Fury down a similar characterization path.
I know this sounds terrible, but that sounds really fucking funny.
edited 27th Apr '17 9:24:21 AM by VeryMelon
Huh? No he didn't. He used the nanites to freeze her in place so he could knock her unconscious. It was Hawkeye who killed her after the fact while she was recovering in the hospital.
In broad terms, besides dubious morality, the difference is Ultimate Fury is the sleek modern superspy whilst 616 Fury is the tough-as-nails rough-on-the-edges WWII vet.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."It was in an era where the idea of gritty, edgy reboots of popular characters hadn't yet become a cliched punchline, so a gritty revamp of the Avengers appealed to a surprisingly large number of people. It helps that the first two volumes also had gorgeous art.
That and, what people don't actually get is that the Avengers weren't hugely popular until relatively recently. When it launched Ultimates was actually wildly more successful than the mainstream Avengers book being published at the time.
edited 27th Apr '17 9:41:57 AM by comicwriter
Ultimate universe's appeal was mostly modernizing characters more for the current age and aesthetic. This worked well in design aspects (with a lot of nifty new uniforms the movies often borrow) and a few storyline aspects (like Ultimate Thor just ditching Donald Blake wholesale and adopting his "sleveless" look).
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Ultimate Marvel had some good bits, but "never go full Ultimates" is good advice for a reason.
This place is careless.The Ultimate universe went too far in trying to be 'realistically' dark, but it did open the door to modernized costumes and incorporating real-world elements in a way that the MCU leaned pretty heavily on in terms of making superheroes palatable to a wider audience. A lot of this cast of Avengers' designs and characterizations owe a pretty big debt to The Ultimates, like it or not.
So it wasn't all bad, is what I'm saying. Just...a lot of it.
edited 27th Apr '17 9:53:12 AM by Unsung
The best thing about the MCU has always been its ability to cherry-pick from all the various comic book ages. Ultimates had good looks, cinematic splash panels, and sharp dialogue. Mark Millar's general bad taste eventually won out and poisoned the cast, but there were still some ideas worth sifting from among the wreckage.
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Well, the idea behind the Hulk is that he's this incredibly dangerous being that Banner should only let out when the Godzilla Threshold has been thoroughly crossed. Given that, actually having the Hulk do some really horrible things when he's let loose makes sense, to remind people why it should be such a move of last resort.
edited 27th Apr '17 10:12:38 AM by RavenWilder
Yeah. Cannibal rapist Hulk was the writer's attempt at doing what they felt was a more realistic take on the character, as they didn't agree with the fact that the Hulk miraculously never kills innocent people during his rampages.
As for Black Widow yes, having two morally dubious black-ops agents actually act like morally dubious black-ops agents fit that same general mindset.
edited 27th Apr '17 10:15:38 AM by comicwriter
Doing a more violent, uncontrollable Hulk and then going for cannibal rapist is quite a leap in thought process.
edited 27th Apr '17 10:29:10 AM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.And Black Widow was always a Russian femme fatale who started out as a villain, so I'm not sure that that should be an Ultimate-specific complaint. She's admittedly a full-on villain in The Ultimates, but the first two things never stopped being true in the main continuity.
That's Mark Millar for you.
edited 27th Apr '17 10:30:09 AM by Unsung
Heel Face Revolving Door Slam? Is that a thing we have?
The Ultimate Universe definitely had its ups and downs. Ups — Ultimate Spider-Man was one of the best takes on a younger, teen Spider-Man and also gave us Miles Morales. Warren Ellis's run on Ultimate Fantastic Four and his Ultimate Galactus trilogy were both pretty awesome (although the FF was then ruined by later writers). In fact, when it came to Warren Ellis, he was generally allowed to roam free in the Ultimate Universe and do what he wanted, which resulted in some pretty awesome things. Quoting from Ellis's trope page: "Ellis admitted that his Ultimate Comics Armor Wars miniseries was just essentially Marvel paying him for his Stream of consciousness writing. The result? Tony Stark beating on, in order - Dr. Wily with a MODOK in his head. Doctor Frankenstein in power armor. Master Chief ripoffs in the process of doing what the MC was canonically designed to do - slaughter protesters. And finally, Howard Stark, Sr. AKA "Ernest Borgnine in an ill-advised love triangle with farming machinery and the wreckage of a Lincoln Continental"."
Ultimatum kind of killed the Ultimate Universe for a bit, though, until Jonathan Hickman decided that what was needed was an Evil Reed Richards and that resulted in a pretty interesting storyline. Hickman eventually moved onto the 616 universe, but by then Marvel decided to basically merge the Ultimate and 616 together via Secret Wars.
edited 27th Apr '17 10:38:58 AM by alliterator
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That's not the word she'd use. That's the point. She's someone who was raised to be a killer and has spent her entire life doing horrible things. Her doing them for the good guys doesn't automatically make her not terrible.
If we're going off him being a huge lug with no inhibitions and nothing holding him back, then no, unfortunately, the rape thing is not that big a leap. That's why it's disturbingly common for real world rapists to claim it wasn't their fault, because the woman turned them on and they just couldn't help or control themselves. He's a giant brute doing whatever the fuck he wants. (It is also worth noting he never actually rapes anyone, I don't think.)
edited 27th Apr '17 10:46:05 AM by comicwriter
