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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#69376: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:12:17 AM

[up]Because why not?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69377: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:13:30 AM

It's creepy, kind of sexist, and there's no reason to put a sex scene in there?

edited 27th Apr '17 7:14:05 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#69378: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:14:55 AM

[up] Come, come, I'm only suggesting it because it's a kinda silly motive for becoming evil. It's not the whole motive but...

Just saying that I want it to be like "Tales of Suspense #57". You know, this one:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZzKuT6cTTAhUM1oMKHSFpDAUQtwIINDAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVyZF6d652w0&usg=AFQjCNFIeRaR6AWRVJlgB8DY9J1vfavrGw&sig2=eCqBFp5Y6riuN4N4uOoibA

Edit: idea Maybe the movie that introduces their origin could also show their transition from villains to heroes? That would be nice if, I admit, a bit cramped.

edited 27th Apr '17 7:18:40 AM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69379: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:16:59 AM

It still feels unnecessary. Why have Hawkeye want to sleep with her? Just have him trying to fight her and capture her for a SHIELD mission.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69380: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:23:04 AM

THAT's how Black Widow can get her movie; a prequel movie about her and Hawkeye's missions under S.H.I.E.L.D!

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69381: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:35:21 AM

People have been pushing for a Black Widow/Hawkeye origins movie since the first Avengers.

Granted, some were doing so out of an egregious misinterpretation of this combat banter exchange:

  • Black Widow: Just like Budapest all over again.
  • Hawkeye: O.o You and I remember Budapest very differently.

The clear intent of the gag is that Widow's commenting on the general scenario of the clusterf*ck war zone they're in while Hawkeye's honing in on the specific elements of aliens, a giant portal in the sky, two Norse gods, etc. but that's not how some fans took it.

Shortly after the movie came out, there was a lot of clamor over this blatant gag, with people wanting a prequel movie exploring Black Widow's earlier encounters with aliens and supernatural portals and stuff in Budapest and why Hawkeye wouldn't remember it. IIRC, there was even people proposing that Hawkeye had his memory wiped to keep him from remembering, and that's why they'd remember Budapest differently.

It's just one of many instances where character dialogue is taken as Holy Gospel and casual banter is strip-mined for alternate meanings and hidden secrets.

edited 27th Apr '17 7:36:30 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69382: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:38:50 AM

Wow. Fans are weird.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#69383: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:40:13 AM

People seriously took that exchange to mean that? I just... what?

This song needs more love.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69384: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:42:13 AM

Y'all have the perfect avatars for this.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#69385: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:44:26 AM

[up][up] and [up][up][up] O.K, seeing that the both of you have similar avatars is kinda freaky...

Edit: Oh, and your avatar's expressions are apt.

Fans are a strange and mysterious species.

I'd still want a Black Arrow and Hawkeye prequel movie that has them starting as villains. I'm not going to compromise on that point.

edited 27th Apr '17 7:45:00 AM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69386: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:47:59 AM

That doesn't really work in the context of the MCU. They state Black Widow was still a villain but that Hawkeye was a SHIELD agent who caught her and was able to convince SHIELD to spare her and make her an operative.

I suppose you could do a Black Widow movie about her time as a criminal but Hawkeye being her sidekick/partner makes no sense.

edited 27th Apr '17 7:48:15 AM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69387: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:49:16 AM

I want a movie of Black Widow's turn from evil spy to SHIELD agent with Hawkeye pursuing her.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69388: Apr 27th 2017 at 7:58:46 AM

It wouldn't be too hard to work in Hawkeye's troubled past. Like, maybe the movie starts with a flashback establishing a young, like 18 or 20-something Clint and his brother Barney in prison for some crime or another when they're approached by someone from S.H.I.E.L.D. - let's say Fury for simplicity's sake, but any established character that the audience would immediately recognize as a S.H.I.E.L.D. person will do. The agent compliments their archery skills, notes that there aren't a lot of people who could do what they did, especially not with a bow, and offers them a chance to turn their lives around.

This introduces Barney, setting him up to either be killed off or turncoat later down the lines as the story prefers, while also showing us how Hawkeye joined S.H.I.E.L.D. and setting him up to pay it forward with Nat.

  • Nat: Quit helping me! Why won't you go away?
  • Clint: Because someone believed in me once.

edited 27th Apr '17 8:01:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69389: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:06:12 AM

"Well, actually, what he said was, 'A man can accomplish anything once he realizes he's a part of something bigger,' but I think that's what he meant. Sounded sort of rehearsed, the way he said it. But you get the idea."

edited 27th Apr '17 8:18:29 AM by Unsung

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69390: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:11:14 AM

If Clint had a Dark and Troubled Past with Natasha, I feel like that would've come up by now. When she's giving her whole speech to Loki about why she owes him her life a brief "We used to run together as criminals but then he grew a conscience and joined SHIELD" would've been easy. Or even as motivation for why he begins to trust Wanda near the end of AOU, because he too was once a young person who made some bad mistakes.

As it stands, just suddenly dropping in that he and Black Widow used to be supervillains together would be kind of jarring. The MCU already has Continuity Drift but if they were gonna go that route, I feel they'd have already planted the seeds by this point.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69391: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:16:06 AM

Seems like they're probably drawing more on the Ultimate versions of the characters. They were definitely both spies, probably both assassins, but not necessarily supervillains.

edited 27th Apr '17 8:16:25 AM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69392: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:16:22 AM

"If you told me this whole Hydra path thing you took is because you misheard my damn "One Man" speech...."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69393: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:18:26 AM

Said theoretical movie would have to delve into both of their backstories, of course. Also, either Black Widow is the lead, or she and Hawkeye are co-leads.

edited 27th Apr '17 8:19:00 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#69394: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:31:57 AM

Seems like they're probably drawing more on the Ultimate versions of the characters. They were definitely both spies, probably both assassins, but not necessarily supervillains.

Ultimate Black Widow was a villain.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69395: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:34:09 AM

Boo, Millar

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69396: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:36:53 AM

So was main universe Black Widow, at first, until she defected. Ultimate Natalia later turned traitor all over again, but she was partnered with Clint for The Ultimates.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69397: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:41:43 AM

Ultimate Black Widow was thoroughly a villain. She was a Russian spy who married Tony Stark as part of her cover and ultimately betrayed the Avengers. She had Clint's family killed and tried to assassinate Stark in bed, only to be undone by the fact that Stark is paranoid as shit.

He'd gifted her an Iron Man suit of her own as a wedding present, but there were implants needed to control it. Because he's a paranoid asshole, he used this as an opportunity to install a killswitch in his f*cking wife. When she turned on him, he triggered the switch and killed her.

Everyone is terrible people in the Ultimate Universe. Spider-Man cast excepted.

edited 27th Apr '17 8:42:59 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#69398: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:44:34 AM

Ultimate Thor is pretty cool.

My various fanfics.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69399: Apr 27th 2017 at 8:49:34 AM

For the record, I was only talking about Clint and Natasha's backstory seeming like it probably drew at least as much from their Ultimate counterparts as the 616 versions, the same as how the first Avengers movie has the Chitauri, and how Sam Jackson is Nick Fury.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

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