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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69326: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:46:29 PM

Someone should make a GOTG 2 thread then because a large chunk of the posters here are from the U.S., where it's not out yet.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69327: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:50:43 PM

Yeah, I'm not willing to put that on the character, since I don't think Iron Fist is very well scripted in general. If you're going to bring her along, which you shouldn't, then somebody should get hurt so she can do her field medic thing, so that it's justified. It's not so hard to do.

Buying that nut cart and blowing it up was great, though. Classic Claire.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:43:41 PM by Unsung

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69328: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:56:01 PM

So I was doing some thinking, and I'm beginning to think that Marvel's biggest competitor right now might not be DC, but Fox's X-Men related movies.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#69329: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:58:36 PM

Dammit Japan, from movie releases to comedy gold yer always one step ahead of us. Damn you, damn you to hell.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#69330: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:59:03 PM

[up][up]Only the ones that aren't a part of the "main" X-Men series.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:00:19 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
GreatMikadoVirtuous Since: Apr, 2017
#69331: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:02:32 PM

Eh, Fox are in serious danger of dissappearing up their own asshole with contradictory movies that seem to simultaneously take place in three seperate time periods - New Mutants following Logan, Deadpool 2 following Deadpool, and Dark Pheonix following Apocalypse. How is anyy audience supposed to follow this?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69332: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:07:17 PM

Honestly, I kind of like that Fox has just stopped bothering with their continuity at this point. It'd be easier for them to just disregard continuity so they can focus on telling wildly different stories than trying to link it all together somehow.

Other than that, I just feel like their films have succeeded where the DCEU has failed: they don't follow Marvel's style and (in the case of Deadpool and Logan) they manage to be more "adult" while still being entertaining. The biggest issue I guess would be that the DCEU has a distinct tone like Marvel does, but the X-Men movies are kind of all over the place tonally.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
GreatMikadoVirtuous Since: Apr, 2017
#69333: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:11:22 PM

Well thats what you get when you're essentially just trying to prepare a meal out of one ingredient. Say what you will about DC, they have all the necessary components for all the stories that they want to tell. If anything, the problem is that they are way too quick to overuse those elements. Meanwhile, Fox didn't have enough components to fully tell Old Man Logan, so they had to make their own spin on Children Of Men instead. They don't have the cosmic elements, so the Phoenix Force needs to be a split personality.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69334: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:14:05 PM

I am very glad that they didn't have access to the Hulk IP. Very very glad.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#69335: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:16:24 PM

Don't be so mean to Japan. They often have wait for month to see a movie which has already been released everywhere else.

Plus, it is not just Japan....I will see the movie tomorrow.

Concerning Fox. I do think that they are more of a rival than Warner bros is at this point, but I also think that they are still miles behind Marvel. But they have found their niche with the r-rated movie. A lot of X-men related properties work well in this ballpark. But they should keep their mitts away from the fantastic four. please. Just...please.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69336: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:17:00 PM

How is anyy audience supposed to follow this?

People seemed to have no problem watching Logan or Deadpool. Folks forget that superhero movies were a thing before the concept of a shared universe was implemented by Marvel and that Fox had hits before that as well.

If you make good, entertaining movies people want to see, they don't give a shit about shared continuity. In fact I'd argue part of the problem with many of the attempted franchises in Hollywood right now (not just DC) is that everyone wants to launch a huge shared universe without actually making sure the films are good enough to warrant that.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:18:54 PM by comicwriter

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#69337: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:20:15 PM

Fox's only real hits (in later years) have been Deadpool and Logan. X-Men: Do FP and Apocalypse weren't really that good (with the latter suffering from the Idiot Ball that the villain spent most of the movie holding), and well... you all remember Fant4stic.

It might be petty of me, but I'm hoping that the X-Men movies crash and burn, if only to increase the possibility of those movie rights reverting to Marvel.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69338: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:20:37 PM

[up][up]

Yeah, that's pretty much how Fox are able to win out in this case. One thing I've seen people worry about with the MCU is that it'll soon feel like homework in trying to understand what's going on between films due to the continuity. Fox doesn't need continuity anymore to make good movies. They're still behind from Marvel (and I'm worried that X-Men: Dark Phoenix and New Mutants might push them back), but I feel like they're a bit more confident in what they want to do compared to DC.

[up]

At this point it's too late to let Fox give up the X-Men rights, and YMMV on Days of Future Past (that film seems to be having a bit of a Love It or Hate It vibe going on lately).

edited 26th Apr '17 4:22:05 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
GreatMikadoVirtuous Since: Apr, 2017
#69339: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:28:15 PM

Deadpool was its own, self contained thing that actively had contempt for the continuity of all characters involved. Not just Deadpool and his contempt for Origins, but Colossus just gaining a really silly accent and not doing a thing to be in line witht he character we saw in X2.

Logan, meanwhile, set itself far apart from all previous movies, benefeiting from a timeskip and making people not sure when or where the movie was set, with people still debating if it took place in the original timeline or not. Nothing from the old movies informed this one, outside of Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman both being old and very tired. That was kind of the point - everything the X-men ever did, ever stood for, it was all for nothing, because infirmity and age just caught up with them, they took their eyes off the world for a second, and boom - the mutants were all gone. It was just two old men living out the final few days of their existence.

The problem is that you can't pull that stuff for sequels to those movies. Deadpool 2 needs to have the first movie inform the second, or its going to suffer the same fate all awful Comedy sequels have. The New Mutants has to start establishing continuity and have the mutants fight for something worth believing in. They can't use those tricks twice.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69340: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:31:56 PM

[up][up][up]If you're defining hit as "whether or not I personally liked it," then maybe. However if you're talking an objective hit, it has a 91 percent at Rotten Tomatoes and made 747 million at the box office.

We have this conversation every year. I don't mean this to be a dick but I've been posting here since like 2012, and every year people think the X-Men franchise will finally bomb definitively and Marvel will be able to get the rights back. It's like being stuck in a time loop.

[up]You're overthinking this. That's not any different from any other movie franchise having to make sequels. Either you have a good sequel or you don't.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:32:52 PM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69341: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:32:29 PM

I should hope Deadpool 2 follows the continuity of the first film. I've no idea what they're gonna do with New Mutants yet, however, so I'm holding on to judgement for that one.

Also, come to think of it, Fox's series Legion has been getting some pretty rave reviews while also being loose with continuity. Better reviews than DC's own shows.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:33:25 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
GreatMikadoVirtuous Since: Apr, 2017
#69342: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:33:08 PM

How many years til Fox has to make a fantastic 4 movie to keep the rights again?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69343: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:33:21 PM

Legion is easily the best comic book show out right now.

Also, why is this discussion being had in the MCU forum and not the X-Men one?

edited 26th Apr '17 4:33:50 PM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69344: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:34:30 PM

Whenever I get to finishing the Marvel Netflix shows, I'll watch Legion. I should be done with my college finals by next Tuesday and have plenty of time to watch more.

[up]

Honestly, I'd brought it up because it was related to both of the franchises in regards to them competing with each other. The X-Men thread is really quiet.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:35:32 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69345: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:42:04 PM

@Virtuous: While the periods probably vary from property to property it seems to be at around 4 minimum, 10 years maximum years depending on the propery. Punisher's last movie was in 2008, and his rights reverted back to Marvel at around 2011. Spider-Man 3 was released in 2007 and Amazing Spiderman (a movie clearly made to hold onto the rights) in 2012.Fantastic Four and the Silver Surfer was in 2007 and F4t4stic (yet again, a movie made to hold onto the rights) was in 2015.

So shortest period of reversion: Punisher's 4 years. Longest without: F4's 8 years.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:43:03 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
GreatMikadoVirtuous Since: Apr, 2017
#69346: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:51:56 PM

Do we not know the specifics of their contract?

Also, Amazing Spider-Man being made solely to keep the rights is a myth. It comes from people who just wanted Sony to STOP making the movies and let the rights revert to Marvel, which is also where a lot of the hate towards those movies comes from. It was made to make a superhero movie.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69347: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:52:27 PM

Source for that?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69348: Apr 26th 2017 at 5:03:00 PM

I remember when they were being produced and a lot of the criticism boiled down to people thinking it was entirely unnecessary to do a reboot of the franchise so soon after the last one. I don't think very many people other than the hardcore fans were paying attention to the fact that it was keeping Spidey out of the MCU.

Even when the movies were coming out the common joke you saw at its expense in the media was "How many of these damn movies are they gonna make?" I remember Dennis Leary going on The Daily Show and mentioning the movie, only for Jon Stewart to sarcastically say something along the lines of "Oh yeah, a Spider-Man movie. That's a rich well of untapped potential!"

edited 26th Apr '17 5:03:37 PM by comicwriter

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69349: Apr 26th 2017 at 7:28:01 PM

enefeiting from a timeskip and making people not sure when or where the movie was set, with people still debating if it took place in the original timeline or not. Nothing from the old movies informed this one, outside of Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman both being old and very tire

I thought they made it clear that Logan wasn't the original timeline - in the original timeline Jean is dead, Xavier and Magneto go to find Wolverine, X1-3.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69350: Apr 26th 2017 at 8:01:20 PM

I'd like to also request that all spoilery talk of Guardians 2 be held off until it comes out stateside. I'm not going to be able to see it until the 5th, I'm going for my birthday, and I'd love not to know how the movie goes.


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