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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#69226: Apr 25th 2017 at 8:12:16 AM

Avengers 5: Oh Shit! Which Actors We Still Have Under Contract?

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#69227: Apr 25th 2017 at 9:00:15 AM

Avengers 6: Um....CIVIL WAR 2!

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#69228: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:13:10 AM

86% is pretty damn good.

Tell that to Zelda fanboys. tongue

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69229: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:34:57 AM

Avengers: Stop Asking for Masters of Evil

edited 25th Apr '17 10:35:07 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69230: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:40:05 AM

Avengers: ...You're Right, This Would Have Been A Lot Easier If We Hadn't Kept Introducing Villains Only To Immediately Kill Them Off Instead Of Leaving Open The Possibility For Them To Recur Later On, How Did We Not Get This, Seriously This Kind Of Thing Is Our Bread And Butter, Dang, Our Bad, For Real

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69231: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:42:10 AM

[up]...Colon Movie Film For Theaters

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#69232: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:42:34 AM

The expectations for Got G Vol 2 are so high, I would actually be surprised if the movie lives up to it. Well, I'll give my brief report in two days.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69233: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:51:52 AM

Recurring villains are overrated. Every superhero has a huge rogues gallery. Given the development time for new films, every time a villain recurs, that's one less villain from that gallery who can show up. This isn't like a TV show where you're guaranteed 16-24 different stories in the span of a year.

Like, take Winter Soldier. Would the film really be improved if Alexander Pearce didn't exist and, in his place, we just got more cackling Red Skull?

Loki's trying to make it work by transitioning into a protagonist to avoid stealing the other villains' thunder, but even then, they ripped out all of Malekith's personality to give Loki more time to shine, so YMMV on whether or not the effort's proving effective.

Too much emphasis on keeping important villains around in a medium where you only get about 2-3 hours of story per 5 year period just results in shit like the Joker, who won't f*cking go away even though everyone's sick of his stupid face showing up in every goddamn thing as though Batman doesn't have any other villains to use.

See also: all the people begging for the new Spider-Man movie to be about anything but Norman Osborn again.

edited 25th Apr '17 10:53:42 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#69234: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:57:48 AM

Avengers: You Thought You Already Had the Absolute Bottom of the Barrel for Villains Before But It Was Me! Orka!

edited 25th Apr '17 10:59:13 AM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69235: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:58:24 AM

I more or less agree with this statement. [up][up]

There are some villains who I feel should be recurring, but they are relatively few. One example I keep mentioning is Kraven. For reasons of: if you want to adapt Kraven's Last Hunt (i.e the best Kraven story and contender for the best Spider-Man story), you need to have him appear more than once because a lot of the fun of that story is that he's tired of losing and decides to go all-out.

Loki is another one I am alright with recurring but I feel he has overstayed his welcome.

edited 25th Apr '17 10:58:33 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69236: Apr 25th 2017 at 10:58:34 AM

I'd suggest Blow-Hard but he's with the X-Men rights

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#69237: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:01:53 AM

Wait, Alexander Pearce? You mean the Irish convict who repeatably tried to escape prison and went down in history as a cannibal because he was one?

He's a Marvel villain? Cool!

edited 25th Apr '17 11:04:57 AM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69238: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:14:44 AM

Every villain doesn't need to be recurring, but did we really need whole scripts written around Whiplash, Malekith, Aldrich Killian, and Yellowjacket? I'm not saying I want those particular guys to come back, but Marvel is awash in interesting villains, and the time spent with these nothing characters feels like it could be better utilized. If killing them isn't going to be particularly satisfying, then I wish we could at least swap them out for more interesting characters. Hold them in reserve, you know, burn them off as part of one of these prestige events.

edited 25th Apr '17 11:15:46 AM by Unsung

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#69239: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:17:36 AM

That's easier suggested than done.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#69240: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:17:56 AM

I'm still waiting for Annihilus.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69241: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:22:37 AM

That's more Fox's dealie, right?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69242: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:24:01 AM

Malekith is a great villain in the comics with a much more frantic personality. And he might have been a better villain in the movie if the studio hadn't decided to cut half of his scenes in favor of more Loki (by all reports there were deleted scenes in which he elaborated on his motivations).

Whiplash would have been a better critique if the character wasn't actually pretty good in the movie. The problem with IM 2 is underusing him, the character itself as Mickey Rourke portrayed it is actually pretty damn cool. The real genericons of the MCU were Justin Hammer and Aldritch Killian,

The IM franchise really shot itself in the foot by refusing to use the Mandarin in any proper form given he's IM's most iconic villain. You could say only iconic villain if you exclude Obadiah/Ezekiel Stane (who was used in the first film) and Crimson Dynamo (who can't be really used in his proper form because the cold war has been over for a while).

edited 25th Apr '17 11:25:54 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#69243: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:32:49 AM

Killian's problem was that he wasn't very well done. Had they been allowed to use Maya Hansen from the start things might've turned out much better, considering she was the true villain of the original Extremis arc.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#69244: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:33:31 AM

[up][up]Crimson Dynamo could still be a villain. I mean, he could be a Cold War villain that got frozen and then recently unfrozen. And then shit happens.

edited 25th Apr '17 11:33:39 AM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69245: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:35:22 AM

Like a Russian Captain Ironmerica

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69246: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:35:44 AM

I, personally, love Killian as the Mandarin.

But I would have liked Maya Hansen more.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69247: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:39:45 AM

I liked Mickey Rourke and his performance as Vanko, but he's in a completely different movie from the rest of the cast most of the time, and I still think it would've been better if he'd been someone other than Whiplash. Maybe lean harder into the whole 'relic of the Cold War' thing, with some flashbacks to a now-defunct Crimson Dynamo project. No, they didn't have the idea for Michael Douglas's Ant-Man at that time, but part of me still wishes that could be a thing.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69248: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:41:18 AM

[up][up] Same.

Also, I don't think more scenes would have fixed movie Malekith. It may have gone more into his motivation but you'd still have the same general portrayal of the character.

Although from what I remember of the Simonson run, Malekith had significant overlap with Loki anyway. So putting him in a movie with Loki was cutting his knees out from him just starting off.

edited 25th Apr '17 11:41:29 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#69249: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:43:32 AM

It works, but not as well. Whiplash as portrayed in IM 2 is already basically a Whiplash-Dynamo fusion, at any rate (he is, more or less, discount Crimson Dynamo with a updated version of Whiplash's weaponry). Killian and Hammer run into the fact they're basically cardboard cutouts saying "evil capitalist guy" and no other substance excepting that.

Maya Hansen may have worked, but I do think the IM movies building up to the Mandarin and then doing a hard swerve to left-field was the worst Marvel decision up until the moment they decided to make the Ancient One white.

Iron Man's rogues gallery isn't stellar either.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69250: Apr 25th 2017 at 11:43:50 AM

The key distinction between the two is that Loki is a scheming manipulator while Malekith is a cackling madman. Like, if you took the Joker and gave him superpowers, you'd have Malekith.

[up] I maintain that there was no satisfying way to do the Mandarin because Iron Man 1 jumped the gun with the "Ten Rings" terrorists. What was intended as a clever Shout-Out became a noose around the character's neck, guaranteeing that he was going to be a shitty imitation of the character readers love no matter what.

edited 25th Apr '17 11:45:21 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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