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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69101: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:02:53 PM

[up] Well, making Tony the Director of SHIELD does come straight from the comics (and Steve is the current Director, although that comes with a very big caveat). But I also think that Tony would never want to be the head of any large government organization — he chafes against rules and regulations, we can see it with him and General Ross. Steve might be a better fit for head of SHIELD, but then again, he also prefers to be out in the field.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#69102: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:06:53 PM

In addition to both of them taking turns as Directors of S.H.I.E.L.D., the idea also comes from a What If? for Civil War that revealed the best possible conclusion to Civil War: in a universe where Tony was more emotionally honest with Steve and Steve didn't sucker punch Tony, the two made peace, ended their conflict, and agreed to work together in order to turn the Registration Act into something that could benefit everyone.

It ends with Steve and Tony as mutually respectful co-leadership and the implication that, once united, they led the world into a golden age.

edited 23rd Apr '17 2:07:31 PM by TobiasDrake

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#69103: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:08:07 PM

I don't oppose Iron Man and Captain America dying or retiring.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#69104: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:09:29 PM

Here are my reasons for Tony dying eventually:

1. I feel that we have done more or less everything which can be done with the character. He has come full circle.

2. In-universe Tony is getting old. He is in his late 40th already, can you imagine a 50 something guy flying around in a suit???

3. RDJ is expensive and I feel that the MCU has kind of outgrown Ironman.

It's the opposite with Cap....for one, I see a lot of story-possibilities with him (I really want a secret invasion storyline with him getting replaced and having to deal with the fall-out later on, and yes, I know that EMH already did that, but I think the MCU could do its own interesting take on the idea). Two, he is still pretty young and even if he weren't, as long as Chris Evans manages to look the part, an aging Cap can be pretty interesting, too. And three....well, I guess a new contract with Christ Evans would be expensive, too, but I think Marvel has a better negotiation position since Bucky or Falcon could both take over for Steve if necessary. But I would prefer it if it weren't necessary.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69105: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:09:55 PM

It ends with Steve and Tony as mutually respectful co-leadership and the implication that, once united, they led the world into a golden age.
Eh. Anything that ends with "And then the world became a utopia" or something similar should be discarded.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69106: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:16:18 PM

Tony's drive and obsession with being Iron Man is precisely why I think dying at the end of Avengers 4 would be a thematically fitting way to end his story arc. He can't stop being Iron Man, then let him go out as Iron Man in one last blaze of glory. Maybe for bonus points have him patch things up with Pepper beforehand for that extra sting.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#69107: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:16:38 PM

1. Only because Iron Man 3 went with Tony solving most of his personal problems and Iron Man 2 hula-hooped around his alcoholism.

2. Age isn't going to stop anybody in Marvel. I don't know of a single Marvel hero other than Steve and Logan whose been genuinely hindered by old age for any extended period of time. And Tony is still better off than anyone since age isn't really going to hinder any of the suit's capabilities.

3. RDJ might be the most expensive, but the others are still astronomically expensive I'd imagine.

Director of SHIELD is the best route:

  • Gives a new dimension to his character.
  • Gives RDJ less paid screen time.
  • It's comics-compliant.

edited 23rd Apr '17 2:17:19 PM by Soble

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#69108: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:20:15 PM

Hell, Tony's even proven his Top Spy cred. Remember that time he casually hacked all of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s files right under Director Fury's nose?

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69109: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:24:55 PM

Remember that time he casually hacked all of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s files right under Director Fury's nose?
Which, again, shows how he chafes under any sort of rules or secrecy. And being the head of a secret organization would be...not good for someone who chafes under secrecy. The comic Tony could be the head, because he actually did keep loads of secrets (including having a secret identity for a long time), but not movie Tony.

I still say that having him mentor Riri Williams would be the best.

edited 23rd Apr '17 2:37:29 PM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#69110: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:34:22 PM

Tony doesn't chafe under secrecy. He just doesn't want secrets kept from him. He considers himself the final arbiter of what should be done and what secrets should be kept. He had no problem keeping Ultron a secret from the rest of the Avengers, or making Vision behind Steve's back.

So did Nick Fury. Remember that Winter Soldier only happened 'cause Fury was like, "There's a secret out there. Something smells fishy," and went out of his way to find out what the WSC was keeping from him.

Tony's just fine about keeping secrets that need to be kept, but when others are keeping secrets from him about things he thinks he should be privy to, he Nopes those secrets into his possession. That's exactly what the Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. needs to do.

edited 23rd Apr '17 2:35:30 PM by TobiasDrake

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69111: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:38:34 PM

Tony doesn't chafe under secrecy. He just doesn't want secrets kept from him.
I mean, the very first Iron Man movie has him keep his secret identity for all of two seconds. He reveals it in a press conference like he just couldn't keep it in.

Tony's just fine about keeping secrets that need to be kept, but when others are keeping secrets from him about things he thinks he should be privy to, he Nopes those secrets into his possession. That's exactly what the Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. needs to do.
The Director of SHIELD also needs to be a good tactician, which I don't think Tony quite is. Which is why Steve would probably be a much better choice.

edited 23rd Apr '17 2:39:24 PM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69112: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:39:23 PM

I'm still in favor of death because if he's still around and not Iron Man, it's just gonna inevitably lead to people asking why he can't get back in the suit if he's still there.

There was an interview I'd read where they mentioned that Spielberg and Lucas wanted Sean Connery to have a cameo in Indiana Jones 4, but he passed on the offer. They said in hindsight it was for the best, since audiences would've been disappointed if he showed up for a cameo and then didn't actually get in on the action like he did in The Last Crusade. I feel like you run into similar problems having Tony Stark appear in your movie just to stand around barking orders behind a computer screen. Even in Homecoming, where he's mentoring the next generation of heroes, we know he suits up in the armor for at least the token action scene.

I'm also just gonna be disappointed if nobody of note dies in Infinity War.

edited 23rd Apr '17 2:46:11 PM by comicwriter

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#69113: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:39:55 PM

Or he thought the explanation Coulson handed him was stupid.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69114: Apr 23rd 2017 at 2:47:06 PM

I don't want Tony to die, because mentoring Riri would be difficult from the afterlife, especially in the MCU.

As an aside, if Riri is ever added to the MCU, should she be played by Skai Jackson, the person her physical appearance is based on, ala Nick Fury, or should they cast someone different (I'm unaware if Skai's acting chops are sufficient for leading a big-budget MCU movie/franchise)?

edited 23rd Apr '17 2:56:33 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#69115: Apr 23rd 2017 at 3:11:36 PM

While I'm not opposed to him dying or perma-retiring, I think transitioning from full active duty to mentor new heroes is a good course for Stark. We're seeing it with Spider-Man, we could see it with Riri and potentially other superheroes. He doesn't necessarily have to die or go into full retirement just because his character arc is finished; "static" characters still play roles in entertainment media as tools in other characters' narratives.

Regarding age, being Iron Man doesn't require incredible physical capabilities, just a sharp mind and reflexes to operate the armor, so age shouldn't be as much of a hinderance to Stark as it would, say, Steve or Natasha. So even if he decides to spend more time out of the suit mentoring young superheroes, he can still climb back in when shit hits the fan.

RDJ being expensive is a moot point; his presence alone guarantees pulling in huge revenue, so they're going to make more money with him than without him.

edited 23rd Apr '17 3:12:42 PM by Anomalocaris20

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Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#69116: Apr 23rd 2017 at 4:17:35 PM

I'm also just gonna be disappointed if nobody of note dies in Infinity War.

There's likely going to be a loooot of death, it's just that, with the gems right there, they'll probably be brought back at the end. Be an easy way to bring back Quicksilver, various side characters and anyone who died in the crossfire of the Avengers battles in previous movies. tongue

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69117: Apr 23rd 2017 at 4:23:32 PM

Characters I assume will die in Infinity War: the Vision, the Vision, and also the Vision.

edited 23rd Apr '17 4:23:40 PM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69118: Apr 23rd 2017 at 4:24:35 PM

[up][up]We will finally have the long awaited return of Asgardian Guard #2 who died at the beginning of Thor.

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#69119: Apr 23rd 2017 at 4:30:00 PM

[up]For the best. They really need to finally resolve his character arc.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69120: Apr 23rd 2017 at 4:34:39 PM

[up] For sure. When he died, I was all...

...only replace "Coulson" was "Asgardian Guard #2."

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69121: Apr 23rd 2017 at 4:48:11 PM

A golden age and a utopia are probably very different

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TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69123: Apr 23rd 2017 at 5:10:05 PM

[up][up]Everything's covered in gold in one.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69124: Apr 23rd 2017 at 5:33:29 PM

So, the 'White' House right now? Doesn't sound very great. Kind of sucks, actually.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69125: Apr 23rd 2017 at 5:43:01 PM

A golden age and a utopia are probably very different
They are pretty similar. A Golden Age just means that everything is great. A utopia means that the entire country is perfect.


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