TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#69001: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:33:27 AM

I mean, she has gotten into her share of controversies with Nicki Minaj and "natural hair" and such, but nothing career-destroying.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69002: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:35:13 AM

Yeah. Cyrus is controversial because of the shocking way she made the leap from child star to pop singer - basically going from "Sweet and innocent role model for young girls" to "Barely-dressed sex bomb" overnight.

Lohan is controversial because she went insane, trainwrecked her life, and is now in and out of drug rehab every other Thursday.

There's a huge difference there. Equating Cyrus to Lohan is basically asserting that a woman being sexually aggressive is equivalent to speedballing meth and opium.

edited 21st Apr '17 11:35:28 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69003: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:38:11 AM

And Bynes didn't even really have a career by the point she'd made herself into tabloid news, she had quit acting a while before. She also was going through schizophrenia that was the cause of said public outburts and got help for it after. She's apparently stabilized her life somewhat.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#69004: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:39:42 AM

Infinity War and Avengers 4 are no longer shooting at the same time because the scheduling became too crazy. Avengers 4 starts shooting in August now.

edited 21st Apr '17 11:40:21 AM by comicwriter

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#69005: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:55:03 AM

Yeah. Cyrus is controversial because of the shocking way she made the leap from child star to pop singer - basically going from "Sweet and innocent role model for young girls" to "Barely-dressed sex bomb" overnight.

And, you know, the racism.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#69006: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:56:39 AM

Lohan was also more than a PR nightmare, she had a tendency to miss shoot times and such because of partying and other personal problems. Meaning just making the movie is a challenge. Bynes is a different story, she retired from acting and trying to lead a private life, but because she was once a big name her personal problems are being broadcast to the world.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#69007: Apr 21st 2017 at 12:02:03 PM

"basically going from "Sweet and innocent role model for young girls" to "Barely-dressed sex bomb" overnight."

This is hardly unique to Cyrus, to be fair.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#69008: Apr 21st 2017 at 12:06:34 PM

The point was to explain her differences from Lohan and Bynes, not to say she was unique in general.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#69010: Apr 21st 2017 at 12:45:19 PM

They seem to have accepted it's not happening now, though going by that interview with Chloe Bennett a few months back, there's still some resentment about that.

From said interview:

Q: Are there any other Inhumans that you would like to see portrayed in the show?

CB: I really loved Yo-Yo. I actually thought that before I was Daisy Johnson, I might be Yo-Yo. I was so stoked to have her come on. And I think that her powers are so cool. Because she can go as fast and as far within a heartbeat. I think there is something very poetic about that, and I like it. But I am kind of, like, ready for Steve Rogers to make an appearance on our show. I’d be ok with that. And like, where’s Romanoff? Where’s the Avengers? Or maybe Robert Downy Jr. as Robert Downy Jr. That would be kinda nice.

Q: If Hive was such a threat, wouldn’t the Avengers get involved?

CB: I don’t know. People who make movies for Marvel, why don’t you acknowledge what happens on our show? Why don’t you guys go ask them that? Cause they don’t seem to care!

Q: If you could have one member of the Marvel Cinematic Universe on your show, who would it be?

CB: There is a lot that I would like to have. I wouldn’t mind a little visit from Thor. Like, what if Daisy had to date Thor? And they’d be like “You have to date Thor. On the show. And kiss.” Just kidding. My boyfriend is standing right behind me. Hi, honey. I love you! He is on the Walking Dead. That would be a cool crossover, right babe?

edited 21st Apr '17 12:45:44 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#69011: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:13:09 PM

In the defence of the show: It think the whole Thor: TDW tie-in was simply bad luck. I have no proof, but I am ready to bet that the episode "Yes, men" in which Sif hunts Lorelei was supposed to be the actual tie in for the movie (because it makes sense to set it directly after the battle in Greenwich), but remember, Jamie Alexander hurt herself pretty badly during the shoot for TDW. I suspect that they had rearrange things fairly short term, hence they did the whole berserker staff episode which had actually next to nothing to do with TDW (at least not more than the Alien Virus episode was connected to The Avengers) and did Yes, Men (for the records, still my least fav episode) later.

I think we all can agree that Ao S is a spy show (and has always been one, btw), and a comic book show. But that doesn't preclude it from being a superhero show, too, with all the powered people running around in it.

Ao S is also all kinds of awesome. No matter how questionable the first season was, it really doesn't deserve the hatred it gets from all sides, often from people who don't even watch the show, or just catch an episode once in a while just to be able to say "yeah, still bad".

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#69012: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:15:32 PM

Isn't Yes Men the one with the awful "hey, the rape of this male character is really no big deal" plotline?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#69013: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:18:35 PM

Yes

Fitting with the horrible and long tradition where comics don't portray men being raped as rape

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#69014: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:19:19 PM

[up][up] Yep...and the "we have to capture an alien we know can influence all men and yet we aren't smart enough to send in an all-woman squad" plotline.

But Sif was pretty cool.

edited 21st Apr '17 1:19:36 PM by Swanpride

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#69015: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:27:17 PM

...what on earth are you people talking about?

The episode where Lorelai abducts some biker guy from his wife and makes him do things for her? Then the moment she finds a better guard (Ward) she dumps the other guy and has Ward do stuff for her?

Where did rape come into this? If you mean metaphorically and you want to extrapolate that far then sure, but that episode had nothing to do with rap...

...oh wait, right, Ward was mind-controlled and slept with Lorelai.

...

...I'll be honest, I gave exactly one and a half craps about that. Ward isn't even a character 80 percent of the people in the AOS thread feel any sympathy for, so, "raped by a Asgardian whose entire shtick is getting what she wants," I don't see a massive Unfortunate Implications there because that's really not what the episode was about. It wasn't written off like Fitz going up to Ward and being like, "You tap that man?" and Ward awkwardly going, "Yeah... something like that" followed by a golf clap from Coulson.

Now if that had happened I'd be like, "Okay, maybe that's not the best way to write that."

From what I remember - Ward gets "Lorelai-napped" and goes off the grid, Lorelai is distinctly the villain of this episode, Ward's like an episode away from sleeping with May to f'ck with the rest of the team (no pun intended), and we're not really made to feel any sort of way about it.

edited 21st Apr '17 1:33:50 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69016: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:29:09 PM

He was forced into having sex without consent and he was blamed for it. It's rape and victim blaming. You can act like you don't feel sympathy, but it still counts as rape and victim blaming.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#69017: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:34:18 PM

[up][up][up] Now see, I would have actually watched the episode if that had happened, especially since I like Sif.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#69018: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:40:27 PM

He was forced into having sex without consent and he was blamed for it

Yeah, you're going to have to refresh my memory here. I remember Ward trying to kill May and May breaking off the relationship at this point but not because Ward slept with her and May blamed him for it.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#69019: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:59:13 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#69020: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:06:31 PM

They could have just been having sex. Blowing off steam, no strings attached. Is that still a ship, for shipping purposes?

I'm always appreciative of relationships that aren't necessarily romantic, or at least where people deal with their feelings in a more realistic, measured way, rather that it always being either falling head-over-heels in love or nothin'.

edited 21st Apr '17 2:13:35 PM by Unsung

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#69021: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:10:34 PM

-deep cough, straightens tie, sips tea-

Alright did some research. I didn't know this was even a thing so I'm a little aback.

I'd argue this person projected way too much into this episode and this character, and misread the context of the episode and scene in question.

Last night, on Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., agent Grant Ward, was brainwashed, kidnapped, and raped — and no one on the show seemed to notice. More disturbingly, the other thread of the episode was about how disturbed and betrayed Coulson is feeling because, while he was dead, S.H.I.E.L.D. did something to him he did not consent to and then brainwashed him into being okay with it. The audience is clearly supposed to understand Coulson’s position and to sympathize with him. The rape victim, once he’s unbrainwashed, gets punched by his lover. I guess this is supposed to be funny or understandable or something.

Ward gets punched by his lover because she has no way to actually tell if Ward's free from Lorelai's control.

At what point:

  • Was May ever aware that Ward was raped?
  • What/when did she say/to imply that she was blaming Ward for getting raped?
  • Why does this matter in hindsight when we know Ward didn't really give a crap?

Also:

  • This isn't Jessica Jones where it's a crucial development for the character.
  • This episode also had a man kill his wife because Lorelai asked him to. And I forget what happened to the guy that Lorelai dumped for Ward, but I'm pretty sure he died too.
  • I'm pretty sure Ward being raped is ignored because it wasn't even addressed in the episode proper. Furthermore, he's not the type of person that this would drastically affect, as we know both from him being in SHIELD's Top 5 pool, and we later find out once he starts acting more and more sociopathic.

I also remember Ward getting blamed for not being able to miraculously sake off Lorelei's powers

I find that hard to believe because Fitz was under the same mind control, and I don't remember anyone getting on his case about it.

edited 21st Apr '17 2:19:59 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69022: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:17:27 PM

Dude, I've seen the episode, I remember that May was blaming Ward for it as if it were his own fault. The rest of your argument feels like really bad rape apologia, to be honest, and it's kind of disturbing.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#69023: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:22:20 PM

I think this is Soble's first time encountering the phenomena in his fiction.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#69024: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:24:47 PM

It's disturbing to me when a work gets stigma for striking cultural or social taboo when there's more to interpret from a scene, character, or story arc.

It's like when everyone called Ward a "Nazi" despite him and Garrett not fitting that definition at all, but the logic was, "well he might as well be a Nazi because he's a horrible person," and because "Nazi" is an easy, derogatory term to slap on something.

"If it looks like this thing it might as well be this thing. And because it's a thing that's universally bad any argument made against calling it this thing must be an argument in favor of this thing. There is no gray area."

edited 21st Apr '17 2:28:21 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#69025: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:26:20 PM

No, they were called Nazis because they were agents of an organization that was literally run by the Nazis back in WWII.

Also, pretty sure that argument hits the Golden Mean Fallacy.

edited 21st Apr '17 2:29:15 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

Total posts: 186,763
Top