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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68976: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:06:11 AM

In terms of season 1, I would agree. But by now, I think it counts as superhero show, considering that Mockingbird, Quake, The Patriot, Ghostrider and Slingshot turned up in at the very least recurring roles (or as series regulars).

The itself does not a superhero show make. Mockingbird and Quake weren't even written as superheroes.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68977: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:20:55 AM

What are the necessary characteristics of a superhero show or of being written as a superhero?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#68978: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:37:05 AM

[up][up][up]Does he get the mask? Please tell me he gets the mask.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68979: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:18:49 AM

Season 1 was very much a police procedural set in a superhero universe but all the promotional stuff focused very heavily on the "set in a superhero universe" part.
Actually, I think the main tagline for season one was "Not All Heroes Are Super," which definitely says that the show wasn't about superheroes.

I do think the show has reinvented itself, more than once, and now includes at least one bonafide superhero (Quake). She only became a superhero when she left SHIELD, however, and now that she's back, she's more like a superspy.

Also, awesome moment from the last AOS episode:

edited 21st Apr '17 8:19:41 AM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68980: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:31:05 AM

The marketing in the first season absolutely gave off the vibe it was gonna be more about superheroes/superpowers than it actually was. The trailers/TV spots open up with a montage of the Avengers and have stuff like super people jumping out of rooftops and slamming into the pavement and all that good stuff. Phrases like "See where The Avengers left off!" and that horrifically misleading Thor "tie-in" were liberally bandied about as well.

Again, this isn't an anecdote. The show not being what people felt it was presented as was across the board one of the biggest criticisms of Season 1 back when it first aired. Hype Backlash was one of the biggest strikes against it.

[up][up]He fucking better.

edited 21st Apr '17 8:40:59 AM by comicwriter

FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#68981: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:39:36 AM

@Pseudopartition Jim Starlin's run on Warlock is among the Greatest Comics of All Time.

edited 21st Apr '17 8:40:30 AM by FoxBoxKid

Make mine Marvel.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68982: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:43:11 AM

[up][up] I mean, here is the trailer for the first season and although it begins about superheroes, the entire thing is pretty much about, you know, Agents of SHIELD. (Especially since this includes the line "Not All Heroes Are Super.")

In fact, here's the promo that says "The Saga That Began in the Avengers Continues Here...":

...and it's still clear that the show is about Agents of SHIELD and not superheroes. Especially with Coulson's line "We work the cases SHIELD hasn't classified."

edited 21st Apr '17 8:44:12 AM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68983: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:44:34 AM

Yes. The trailer they open with the Avengers. I wonder why they'd do that...

edited 21st Apr '17 8:45:13 AM by comicwriter

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68984: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:48:14 AM

[up]I mean, if someone watched only the first five seconds of the promo, I get why they would be confused. But if they watched the entire promo, they shouldn't be. There are all these hints about what the show is about, like, I don't know, the name and all the non-superheroes in it.

edited 21st Apr '17 8:49:02 AM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68985: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:49:55 AM

Anyway....yeah. If they'd marketed the first season better there'd probably have been less backlash from viewers. Woulda coulda shoulda I guess. It's a shame because while it did improve there's something of a Never Live It Down pervading its reputation that largely exists because of the mishandling of Season 1.

I do love the gags that inspired though.

edited 21st Apr '17 8:50:49 AM by comicwriter

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#68986: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:50:18 AM

Were there announcements of Michelle Yeoh and Ving Rhames being in GOTG 2 beforehand? Or is this a big surprise kinda thing?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68987: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:54:13 AM

[up]Gunn confirmed it in an interview. Which is kind of weird to play it so close to the vest and then confirm it right before the release, but I guess people were asking him about it after the premier.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68988: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:55:01 AM

I get the criticism but dealing with this nonsense is kind of SHIELD's job.

And Daisy can shake mountains. So.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68989: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:56:39 AM

It seems like the showrunners on AOS were hoping for a little more reciprocity from the actual cinematic wing of the MCU. And maybe when Joss Whedon was directing the big tentpole crossovers, that seemed more likely. They seem to have accepted it's not happening now, though going by that interview with Chloe Bennett a few months back, there's still some resentment about that.

The show did get off to a pretty rough start. It frittered away a lot of goodwill, probably with viewers and the studios both, with weak episodes featuring what movie crossovers they got, like Sif. So unfortunately by the time they were getting Nick Fury and Maria Hill back later in the season, there just wasn't the viewership left where that sort of bump meant much. And even when they introduced the Inhumans on the show, it went largely ignored. And so now they're mostly just doing their own thing.

edited 21st Apr '17 10:21:57 AM by Unsung

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68990: Apr 21st 2017 at 9:42:59 AM

Anyway....yeah. If they'd marketed the first season better there'd probably have been less backlash from viewers.
Once again: the tagline for the first promo is "Not All Heroes Are Super." Only people who watched the first five seconds of the promo would be confused about this secret agent show being about, you know, secret agents.

And so now they're mostly just doing their own thing.
I mean, that should be lauded, because the more the show did their own thing, the better it got.

edited 21st Apr '17 9:44:06 AM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68991: Apr 21st 2017 at 10:01:03 AM

[up][up]Yeah. That plus the marketing hurt it. I still remember the internet collectively getting pissed off with the episode that was touted as being a Thor: The Dark World tie-in and the "tie-in" was a joke in the first scene.

Comparatively I felt the Netflix shows did a better job with not having misleading marketing.

edited 21st Apr '17 10:03:20 AM by comicwriter

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#68992: Apr 21st 2017 at 10:14:04 AM

I think even the tagline would cause some confusion, because then people might be thinking that the show is about how these Badass Normals are able to stay relevant next to the likes of Thor or Captain America. That's still not really the case. Overall, AOS was marketed as a tie in filling in the gaps of the MCU movies, when it has mostly just done its own thing. This is in contrast to the Netflix shows, where the connection to the rest of the MCU is a lot thinner.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68993: Apr 21st 2017 at 10:21:53 AM

The catch with Ao S is that it isn't really a traditional superhero show and this is where the first half of season 1 fizzled out. Ao S works best when it's being a spy show. That's why the mid-season twist in the first season aided it so much: we finally got to see them doing spy shit, complex gambits, labyrinthine international shadowy schemes, mole operations, false flags, e.t.c. And this sort of espionage shtick is something the show kept up from that point onwards, and it only improved by doing so.

The first 1/2 of the first season suffered from trying to be basically a budget superhero show, so our heroes mostly dealt with some fairly mundane "stop the evil menace" stuff. Afterwards it got a lot more cerebral and became all the better for it.

edited 21st Apr '17 10:22:51 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KingNomarch Since: Oct, 2015
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68995: Apr 21st 2017 at 10:47:10 AM

[up] That is an odd cast makeup. Three big action actors from the 80's and 90's and....Miley Cyrus? Not a bad choice just kinda doesn't fit with the overall Casting Gag.

edited 21st Apr '17 10:47:25 AM by comicwriter

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68996: Apr 21st 2017 at 10:58:12 AM

And to think just yesterday I said that even WB wouldn't be dumb enough to put Lindsay Lohan or Amanda Bynes due to the PR nightmare and Marvel does this

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68997: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:02:02 AM

How is this a PR nightmare? The other two women are trainwrecks who destroyed their careers.

edited 21st Apr '17 11:02:32 AM by comicwriter

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68999: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:11:25 AM

Huh? She still has a career as far as I'm aware.

Feige on where they plan to go after Phase 4.

“We’ve been lucky that [contract expirations] haven’t factored in too much. We’ve had people under contract for certain films, then we’ve had new ideas and new directions like Civil War like we wanted to do, and we’ve been lucky enough to make new contracts. Or Spider-Man: Homecoming, the cast has been awesome in their enthusiasm for the direction and the storylines that we’ve been telling. So it really does, right now, all start with where we wanna take the stories. Certainly as we get to Infinity War there is a sense of a climax if not a conclusion to, by the time we’re at untitled Avengers 4, the 22 movies that will have encompassed the first three phases of the MCU. And what happens after that will be very different. I don’t know if it’s Phase 4, it might be a new thing.

We have an idea [of what the MCU looks like post-Infinity War], and it’s gonna be very, very different.

http://collider.com/marvel-phase-4-movies-kevin-feige/#mcu

edited 21st Apr '17 11:13:57 AM by comicwriter

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#69000: Apr 21st 2017 at 11:30:23 AM

And to think just yesterday I said that even WB wouldn't be dumb enough to put Lindsay Lohan or Amanda Bynes due to the PR nightmare and Marvel does this
Miley Cyrus is nowhere near the trainwreck that is Lohan and Bynes. Their careers imploded. Miley Cyrus, on the other hand, merely switched her career from being tween oriented to being much more adult oriented and it worked. She hasn't had any of the big controversies that Lohan and Bynes have had.


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