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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68926: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:17:05 AM

I expect Rocket to laugh at Cap's attempt to make a rousing speech honestly.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68927: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:49:10 AM

Peter should be impressed, though. I bet Cap is one of if childhood heroes. I mean his mother even time travelled to get an autograph.....

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68928: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:53:04 AM

I'd be greatly entertained if Peter offhandedly mentioned his grandmother was a huge fan of Captain America and even got to meet him.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#68929: Apr 20th 2017 at 12:20:43 PM

@Shield: Count me as another that thinks it's the best superhero show on TV right now. The C Wverse isn't terrible but it has its ups and downs whereas AOS has been fantastic since season 1. I'd probably be fine with it continuing for at least another two or three years but I'll still be content if it gets a shortened fifth season to wrap things up.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68930: Apr 20th 2017 at 12:39:57 PM

I find that interesting since the general consensus is Season 1 kinda sucks and it only starts getting good in the latter half of it. Every time I ever see someone recommend it they say Season 1 is not very good but to please stick with it because the quality improves in Season 2.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#68931: Apr 20th 2017 at 12:42:07 PM

Season one does get good in the later half but it's still a little rough around the edges. The main reason people say to stick with it is because of a really huge twist partway through and because it's important to get to know the characters.

edit: Sky and Fitz are big ones with this. If you just jumped in with season 2 some of the stuff going on with them wouldn't have the same impact.

edited 20th Apr '17 12:42:44 PM by Kostya

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68932: Apr 20th 2017 at 1:38:59 PM

Oh boy, we're even getting Hero vs. Hero in the movies.

Well, they didn't necessarily say they were gonna fight.

...They definitely should so, just so Mantis can kick Thor's ass again.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#68933: Apr 20th 2017 at 1:48:02 PM

I mean his mother even time travelled to get an autograph.....

Wait, is that a joke?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68934: Apr 20th 2017 at 1:57:31 PM

No she really went back in time to get his autograph. Didn't you see the first Cap movie?

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#68935: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:01:00 PM

[up] I did, but I don't recall Peter Quill's mom ever appearing...

Could you please explain the context of all that?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68936: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:02:55 PM

The main problem with season 1 were too high expectations and the usual "we have to set up a huge world somehow" problems. It is actually not worse than Arrow season 1 which started with really cheesy narrations and a lot of hooky set-ups. If you are not overly critical about the show, it shows its potential the first time in the episode Tracks, which also happens to be the start of the second season arc (and also the episode in which Stan Lee turns up and tells Coulson that he really should do better in the future). The second half of season 1 is so worth watching, especially once the winter Soldier kicks in. and from this point onward the show starts running and newer stops. There are next to no filler episodes (there are perhaps one or two per season which can be considered filler, and even those are still relevant for the overall storyarc) and you suddenly realize that a lot of stuff which seemed to be meaningless actually plays some sort of role later on after all. And because the show is broken up in different arcs, if you don't like an arc, well, you might like the next one.

The best thing about Ao S is that it is utterly unpredictable while still taking care to set up all the twists, and that the characters are actually allowed to develop. If you put the season 1 version of them beside the current versions, you will barely recognize some of them, and yet every step on the way made completely sense.

Someone recently said that Ao S is the show to which clichés go to die, and that is the most apt description you can use for it. It rarely does what one would expect and whenever it does use some sort of tired trope, you can bet that it will twist it around. Like, a character wanting to have his heroic sacrifice complete with charging towards the enemy, and then he gets captured because that was the plan all along.

[up] During the montage in which Cap is on tour in the US, the actress of Meredith Quill turns up in order to get his autograph.

edited 20th Apr '17 2:03:58 PM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68937: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:16:12 PM

[up][up]Dude...

[up]I'd say the problem was less too high expectations and more that the first half is just really uninteresting. By the writers' own account they were basically spinning their wheels until Winter Soldier was released and it shows. It's a lot of uninteresting done-in-ones for the most part.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68938: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:28:37 PM

The Centipede arc isn't the strongest of the show but it does still have its moments. The pilot episode is still some of the best television ever made in my opinion. But it definitely grows its beard in season two.

Seriously, this is a show where they can cart out a giant Poke Ball to capture a seemingly unstoppable villain and present it in such a way that it makes perfect sense and you don't find yourself questioning why you are looking at a goddamn Poke Ball.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#68939: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:33:28 PM

I've only seen scattered episodes, but I remember really liking T.R.A.C.K.S., which was a few episodes before the Hydra reveal. It wasn't all bad.

edited 20th Apr '17 2:33:53 PM by Pseudopartition

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68940: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:42:29 PM

I liked some of the earlier episodes quite a bit, but it was kind of uneven until after Winter Soldier. Raina was probably one of the characters that immediately caught my eye from the beginning.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68941: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:46:36 PM

The biggest flaw of the Centipede arc is the identity of the Clairvoyant. The show kinda forgot it's in a superhero universe for that one. It set up a supernatural mystery for the protagonists to solve, had a bunch of characters naysay the possibility of a supernatural answer, and then culminated it an the bland unmasking of a wholly mundane threat, confirming that there was never anything supernatural about it in the first place.

In a superhero show.

It's like if you did a story set in the Harry Potter universe about a bunch of muggle cops investigating a mysterious series of killings performed by impossible means. Slowly, they piece together the clues leading to the much-anticipated and suspenseful reveal of the wizard behind it all. And then they find him! And he's a totally mundane serial killer with a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything because everyone f*cking knows magic isn't real.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68942: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:47:38 PM

Scattered episodes don't work, you really need to work through them.

The biggest tear-jerker the MCU has ever done is in Ao S (Parting shots). Some of the best twists are in Ao S. The best take religious symbolism is in Ao S. Hell, the show does Robots better than Age of Ultron, Alternate realities better than Flashpoint (not that this is difficult) and deals with time better than Legends of tomorrow.

[up] That was one of the better twists they did imho.

edited 20th Apr '17 2:48:39 PM by Swanpride

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#68943: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:55:07 PM

I gave up on Season 1 after a few episodes, eventually finished it via Netflix after hearing it got better, thought it was all right. Then I watched Season 2 and thought that was really pretty good. Then I started Season 3, and gave up about halfway through.

The episode with Jemma on an alien planet was awesome, but the rest ... it wasn't bad, but I could never really get invested or interested in the characters, so it was hard keeping my attention when there wasn't an action scene or special effect going on.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68944: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:58:33 PM

The first half of season 3 has its share of problems. The biggest being the conflict revolving around a villain who had long outstayed his welcome and had nothing interesting left in him.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68945: Apr 20th 2017 at 2:59:30 PM

The second half of Season 3 was way better than the first half. The first half didn't even really have a good villain outside of Malick, but once Hive showed up in the second half, it gets really great.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68946: Apr 20th 2017 at 3:00:24 PM

That is also true. Hive is one of my absolute favorite villains across the MCU. He was perfect. @.@

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68947: Apr 20th 2017 at 3:02:55 PM

I thought that Lash was supposed to be the main villain of the first half, but he was kind of a weaksauce villain.

Plus I'm pissed about how he died because it was fucking bullshit.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68948: Apr 20th 2017 at 3:15:36 PM

I still don't get why people liked Hive so much. I think I just couldn't really buy into the performance. Seems like that's just me, though.

The Clairvoyant being an entirely mundane human was a great twist for a show about spies, especially since the other reveal, Deathlok, was so well handled and had such a great payoff. They earned the hell out of that bait and switch, and then to follow it up with the an ongoing arc detailing the fall of SHIELD, on a show called Agents of SHIELD? That was ballsy.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#68949: Apr 20th 2017 at 3:16:35 PM

I think AOS in general has a problem with the first half being kind of dull. Season 2 wasn't too outstanding until the Inhuman arc began. Season 3 was better but the Hive arc still blew the first half out of the water. Season 4 has been more consistent but i think this still holds true to an extent with the LMD and Agents of Hydra arcs being significantly above the Ghost Rider arc.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68950: Apr 20th 2017 at 3:26:53 PM

Well, it does need some time to put all puzzle pieces in place, but saying that the start is weak is kind of misleading...it is weak compared to the outstanding stuff we tend to get for the mid-season and season finales. Or now arc-finales.

Some really good episodes have been at the start of the season...the one in which Bobbie got introduced for example. Or the one beforehand, in which Donnie Gill returned and Fitz confronted Ward. The blackout episode was also pretty awesome.


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