TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#68576: Apr 11th 2017 at 9:27:22 PM

[up]Are you sugesting Ultron should use football droids? because im totally ok with thattongue

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68577: Apr 11th 2017 at 9:29:11 PM

...Damn, you just made me imagine AOU as taking place over the course of a whole year, like the highlights reel of an entire TV show cut up and compressed into a single movie. I really want to see that movie now.

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#68578: Apr 11th 2017 at 9:30:16 PM

[up][up]Yes.[lol]

[up]Also very much yes. cool

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#68579: Apr 11th 2017 at 9:54:15 PM

Football droids like those NFL robots? That would be awesome.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#68580: Apr 11th 2017 at 9:55:53 PM

[up]Can you imagine Hulk fighting a horde of those? [awesome]

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#68581: Apr 11th 2017 at 11:03:54 PM

I was under the impression that Return of the Jedi was the least liked Star Wars movie due to the Ewoks and the retreading of A New Hope's plot of destroying the Death Star...

It was sarcasm. Comicwriter and I were parodying Joss Whedon's dislike of cliffhangers resulting Age of Ultron having to simultaneously set up Civil War while still demanding a happy ending.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68582: Apr 11th 2017 at 11:17:58 PM

Which is kind of weird, if I'm understanding the reason he dislikes them right.

He of all people should recognize the need for a film in a series to sacrifice proper (or even basic) individual plot construction for the sake of the overall story. After all, both Avengers movies (and any that will come in the future, for sure) make similar sacrifices.

edited 11th Apr '17 11:18:07 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68583: Apr 11th 2017 at 11:31:26 PM

He intended to break the Avengers, and he failed. He intended to outsmart them, and he FAILED. He stopped being an intellectual and emotional threat when he failed to be both.
Of course he failed. He's the villain. Saying "The villain is weak because he failed" is silly.

Ultron is both smart and cocky — just like, say, Tony Stark. He makes up plans on the fly that often enough don't quite work out — just like, say, Tony Stark. It doesn't matter if his plans don't work out, because Ultron throws it off with a quip and a joke — just like, say, Tony Stark.

Ultron isn't an Avengers villain. Ultron is an Tony Stark villain. And yes, things don't work out for him, but they never were going to work out. But there was still an enormous amount of effort that went into stopping him — and the Sokovia attack reverberated into Civil War, meaning that, hell, Ultron even caused that movie.

Let's just all agree that, while A o U (and Ultron in particular) wasn't badly written, it was very lazily so.
Uh, no, I don't agree with that. Ultron's character and characterization in the movie is some of the best antagonist building I've seen.

Which is kind of weird, if I'm understanding the reason he dislikes them right.
He dislikes them because if a movie ends with a cliffhanger, it's not a whole movie. It's just part of a movie. The resolution isn't there. Honestly, I'm fine with them, because I like the serialized nature of some movies, but I can see where he's coming from — if you want to make a serialized story, make a TV show. A movie should be able to stand on its own two feet without needing to see the next film.

edited 11th Apr '17 11:32:17 PM by alliterator

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68584: Apr 11th 2017 at 11:55:06 PM

I want to give Wanda a little more credit because at the very least, the bad things she did were coming from a place of desperation.

Desperation for what?

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#68585: Apr 12th 2017 at 12:00:45 AM

Well, her and Pietro being willing to be experimented on was out of wanting to protect their home from something they perceived as a dangerous threat. Everything after that up until realizing that Ultron's plan was "Kill everyone" was lashing out at a world and the group that took everything from her.

My various fanfics.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#68586: Apr 12th 2017 at 12:07:31 AM

Of course he failed. He's the villain. Saying "The villain is weak because he failed" is silly.

Nobody said HYDRA in The Winter Soldier or Ronan were weak because they failed, because both came off as legitimately powerful. Good writing makes taking down a villain feel like a feat, not an inevitability.

Ultron isn't an Avengers villain. Ultron is an Tony Stark villain.

Not good logic to use for an Avengers film. By that logic one could say "well of course Strucker looked weak in AUO, he's a Captain America villain". Presentation matters, and if a character doesn't work well in a swapped environment then they should be replaced.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#68587: Apr 12th 2017 at 12:17:22 AM

I want to give Wanda a little more credit because at the very least, the bad things she did were coming from a place of desperation. [...] Her and Pietro being willing to be experimented on was out of wanting to protect their home from something they perceived as a dangerous threat. Everything after that up until realizing that Ultron's plan was "Kill everyone" was lashing out at a world and the group that took everything from her.

I might've said this before, but I really dislike how the twins' catalyst for switching sides boils down to "oh no Ultron hates everybody". Any legitimate discussion of their view of Tony Stark and the Avengers as loose cannons is promptly forgotten during and after getting Ultron out of the way. It's a lazier version of Guardians of the Galaxy. One wonders what Civil War would've been like if Wanda had decided to use the Accords to get reparations from Tony.

I think that points to a larger problem with the film as a whole. For all the discussion that Ultron views the Avengers as dangerous, that Hulk's rampage brings their reputation down, and Cap's claim that the battle in Sokovia has to prove they're the right protectors of the world, it never actually gets depicted, only discussed.

edited 12th Apr '17 12:17:33 AM by Tuckerscreator

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#68588: Apr 12th 2017 at 12:38:38 AM

The problem is that Wanda and Pietro's "desperation" essentially amounted to "we hate The Avengers." Everything that they did, was for the sake of a personal grudge, including being complicate in the deaths of innocent people (and seemingly not caring much about that for a big chunk of the movie). And again, if you want to do a redemption arc for Wanda, fine. But that's not what CW does with her, and I have a hard time sympathizing with her in the way that CW clearly wants me to.

It's the same thing with Zemo. I find him no all that sympathetic because he's intentionally and knowingly killing or putting in a position to be killed, hundreds of innocent people. And it's all for the sake of his own personal vengeance.

But the one difference is, ultimately the movie still treats Zemo like he's the VILLAIN!! It's just that he's a villain with an understandable motivation for doing what he does. But it doesn't essentially go "oh poor Zemo, we need to coddle him" like it does Wanda.

edited 12th Apr '17 12:39:30 AM by Punisher286

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68589: Apr 12th 2017 at 12:56:38 AM

[up] It's a little bit more complicated than that. They grew up in a country which was in a constant state of being under attack from one force or another, and mixed into that is a war trauma which goes way beyond a personal grudge. Spending hours staring at a bomb waiting for it to go off would mess up anyone, never mind two children who just lost their parents and then grew up on their own. Naturally they hate Tony - the Avengers they only hate as his extension, his enablers.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68590: Apr 12th 2017 at 1:14:13 AM

[up][up] Hell, Zemo's grudge is arguably more justified if only because he's actually going after the Avengers for something that is there fault. Wanda's reason for hating them boils down to one of them building a bomb that killed their parents. it's like me trying to kill a car company CEO because one of the cars his company built killed my parents in a car accident.

[up]Zemo grew up under the same conditions as them and has a more justified grudge yet he's treated as a villain while they aren't.

edited 12th Apr '17 1:15:27 AM by windleopard

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68591: Apr 12th 2017 at 1:29:05 AM

[up] For one, he didn't...we know that he wasn't an orphan and that he actually managed to have quite a good time living in Sokovia. I also doubt that he ever spend hours staring at a bomb. And two, Zemo was a pretty questionable character before he lost his family. He was the leader of a freaking kill squad!

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68592: Apr 12th 2017 at 1:42:57 AM

For one, he didn't...we know that he wasn't an orphan

He still lived in the same country as the twins.

and that he actually managed to have quite a good time living in Sokovia.

Until Ultron wiped it out.

And two, Zemo was a pretty questionable character before he lost his family. He was the leader of a freaking kill squad!

And Wanda joined a terrorist organization that even the Nazis were afraid of, psychologically tortured five people and set a living WMD on a populated area. What does what Zemo was before Ultron have to do with anything? We're judging him and Wanda for what they did after they lost their families and not before.

edited 12th Apr '17 1:46:55 AM by windleopard

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68593: Apr 12th 2017 at 1:45:43 AM

I hope the Fenris Wolf, the Midgard Serpant, and most of the Planet Hullk cast are in Thor: Ragnarok. It would make me sad if Hulk's role in the Planet Hulk portion is actually replacing Silver Surfer and Thor is replacing Hulk, which I fear will happen considering how Valkyrie appears to be replacing Caiera.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68594: Apr 12th 2017 at 1:52:37 AM

If Jormungandr is in Ragnarok I will be extremely happy. I really want to see an adaptation of that famous spread page.

But I'm not holding my breath, especially since they said they were phasing out Midgard in this one.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#68595: Apr 12th 2017 at 1:54:23 AM

Ah, another of Loki's freaky mutant children.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68596: Apr 12th 2017 at 1:58:56 AM

Oh, and by god, do I want it acknowledged and confirmed that all three of them plus Odin's horse are all Loki's children.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#68597: Apr 12th 2017 at 2:09:39 AM

[up]x4 Well, to what extent would you want them in the movie? We have quite a few characters as it is.

Oh God! Natural light!
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#68598: Apr 12th 2017 at 2:13:34 AM

I want a sitcom featuring Loki's entire family.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#68599: Apr 12th 2017 at 2:17:22 AM

Every wacky episode ends with Loki getting poison in his eyes.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#68600: Apr 12th 2017 at 4:54:35 AM

Er...bombs are designed for the express purpose of killing people. Cars are not.

Hating someone because he created the weapon that killed your parents is pretty justified.

edited 12th Apr '17 4:55:38 AM by Galadriel


Total posts: 186,763
Top