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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68527: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:36:08 PM

This isn't a detective movie, or a buddy cop movie. It's a superhero movie.
That's stupid. Saying that superhero movies need giant physical threats is nonsensical.

Honestly, I found Ultron much more interesting since he wasn't a giant physical threat. He's a much more complex character than you are making him out to be.

Witch is the one trying to break them apart by preying on their insecurities, making them doubt themselves and each other, and acting as the threat whose effects they can't defeat just by throwing enough punches and explosions.
Scarlet Witch under the planning of Ultron. She didn't just do it on her own. She did it because it was part of Ultron's plan. Hence why Ultron is an emotional and intellectual threat. Because he uses people.

edited 11th Apr '17 1:37:34 PM by alliterator

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68528: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:38:41 PM

Ultron's both interesting as a character and uninteresting as a threat.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68529: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:41:17 PM

[up][up][up]Exactly. All the merit Empire Strikes Back had is undone by it having a cliffhanger ending. Everyone agrees with that. It's why it's the least liked Star Wars movie.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68530: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:41:49 PM

[up][up][up] She was doing it before Ultron even showed up, and continued to do so while working with him, and the emphasis for the acts themselves is always put on her - hence why she insists its all her fault at the end.

She and him work together, and he's the Big Bad, but in the same way Vader and Palpatine are separate threats, or the Elite Mook and the Big Bad are separate threats, their arcs aren't the same.

edited 11th Apr '17 1:43:50 PM by KnownUnknown

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#68531: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:45:13 PM

That's stupid. Saying that superhero movies need giant physical threats is nonsensical.

A superhero film can survive without the Big Bad being a physical threat as long as there's bigger threats to fill the gap. In The Dark Knight, the Joker is rendered dangerous through his traps and wild unpredictability. In The Winter Soldier, Pierce has no combat skills, but a few tricks up his sleeve and the entire resources of SHIELD to back him up.

Ultron isn't exactly weak, but he doesn't come off as deadly either. In retrospect it's odd why he didn't turn to designs that would've made him a nightmare to handle, such as built-in guns or multiple limbs. As is, his tussles just come off as a kind of unruly Iron Man, not the "one hit away from death" that hacked-War Machine or the Winter Soldier threatened. And his army registers even less than the Chitauri.

edited 11th Apr '17 1:46:03 PM by Tuckerscreator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68532: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:45:34 PM

In fairness, Ultron did have one of his selves off to the periphery somewhere.

Unfortunately, Vision thought of that too.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#68533: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:47:38 PM

Given how damaged it was, it looked less like "Ultron sent this one off as insurance" and more like "oops we missed one, just barely survived an exploding meteor".

But if Marvel really wanted to, it wouldn't be hard for them to retcon there being a survivor.

edited 11th Apr '17 1:47:58 PM by Tuckerscreator

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#68534: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:53:08 PM

[up]x8

I never said he wasn't a complex character. He is; whether you like his complexity or not is something very subjective and not the issue right now.

What I mean is, that when push came to shove, Ultron didn't held up. He intended to break the Avengers, and he failed. He intended to outsmart them, and he FAILED. He stopped being an intellectual and emotional threat when he failed to be both. So, he went "fuck it, I'm going to go all Final Fantasy VII on these idiots". So, he built a machine to do just that. The point is, that his plan was reliant on only one thing: that he could push a damn button. I know he was waiting by the church to do just that, but when the Avengers threw him out of the place he lost. AT THAT MOMENT HE LOST. I mean, I know Ultron is cocky as hell and he thought that the Avengers couldn't pass him, but, what the writer didn't remember was that, for all the cockiness that Ultron shows, HE ISN'T STUPID. He should've said "Ok, these guys stole my new body from me. The ones who stole it weren't even the strong ones. Maybe I make a contingency plan?"

That's the problem. That if Ultron already showed that he wasn't smart enough to get the nuke codes, or to succeed in uploading himself to Vision, OR TO FORESEE THAT MAYBE HE WON'T BE ABLE TO STAY IN THE CHURCH, then he should at least be strong enough to reclaim the church by himself, or, for starters, to prevent the Avengers for getting too close in the first damn place.

I mean, his body is made of FREAKIN' VIBRANIUM.

DRAMATIC ALLCAPS.

edited 11th Apr '17 1:59:44 PM by ExplosiveLion

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68535: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:53:23 PM

"Of course I left one body on ice just in case. What do you think I am? An idiot?"

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68536: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:57:58 PM

They could probably claim some seed of Ultron's personality still resides in the Mind Stone if (and that's big if) they ever wanted to bring him back in the MCU. Not that I'm holding my breath.

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#68537: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:03:16 PM

Let's just all agree that, while Ao U (and Ultron in particular) wasn't badly written, it was very lazily so.

Anyway...

So, Thor: Ragnarok? I said it before, but I say it again. Doesn't it look like learning from the DC movies' visuals?

edited 11th Apr '17 2:04:39 PM by ExplosiveLion

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68538: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:15:50 PM

I actually don't agree...Ao U is a typical "wanting too much at once" case. The only thing which was badly written was the stupid romance.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#68539: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:17:41 PM

The visuals do remind me of a better looking version of Wonder Woman, which takes it too far in the wrong direction where it looks like the film has been run through too many burn/dodge filters and is artificially colored.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68540: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:25:09 PM

Actually...it looks as if they put a Disney Animation team on the job. Or as if the director was really set on putting the concept art on screen exactly as it was.

I wonder...we got quite a lot concept art for Thor and Black Panther. I can't remember seeing quite as much for previous movies, except naturally Doctor Strange, for obvious reasons....

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68541: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:26:33 PM

[up][up][up]He said it wasn't badly written, just lazy. So I think you actually do agree.

[up][up]I was thinking Mad Max for the costumes, something of GOTG's action pacing, soundtrack, and title aesthetics (at least in the trailer), and Moebius's colours on top of Jack Kirby's designs.

edited 11th Apr '17 2:26:47 PM by Unsung

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#68543: Apr 11th 2017 at 4:22:18 PM

Huh? Where are they getting these numbers from?

edited 11th Apr '17 4:22:58 PM by ExplosiveLion

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68544: Apr 11th 2017 at 4:26:09 PM

...Youtube? Other video sites It's not like it would be hard to get.

I imagine that's across all the various channels hosting the video, not just Marvel's official one.

edited 11th Apr '17 5:01:32 PM by Unsung

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68545: Apr 11th 2017 at 4:49:24 PM

A lot of people have said this about Thor's "YES!", but I love it. I love the way Hemsworth delivered it, especially. That's a "YES" that says a lot about how much crap Thor has gone through. It's not just a "this is awesome" shout. It's a "oh thank Odin, finally a freaking break!" shout.

I guess among the Avengers, while Tony is incessantly snarky, Thor is generally the biggest goofball.

edited 11th Apr '17 4:56:51 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68546: Apr 11th 2017 at 5:05:58 PM

"The gates of Hel are filled with the screams of his victims!"

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68547: Apr 11th 2017 at 5:09:39 PM

"... not screams of the dead, of course. Wounded screams! And a great deal of complaining and tales of sprained deltoids..."

Rewatching the trailer, I didn't notice at first Loki's little Oh, Crap! reaction when Hulk shows up. evil grin

Also, the scene where Hel breaks Mjolnir seems to happen on Earth. Interesting...

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68548: Apr 11th 2017 at 5:10:43 PM

So it's probably after they go to Doctor Strange for help to find Odin.

And Loki is having flashbacks to that ass whupping, obviously.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#68549: Apr 11th 2017 at 5:37:12 PM

I think Thor was just happy to see a friend.

On another note, In terms of the most outright heroic Avengers, I'm pretty sure it goes like this.

1A- Steve

1B- Thor

2- Vision

3- Sam

4- Rhodey

5- Bruce

6- Clint

7- Wanda

8- Romanov

9- Tony

edited 11th Apr '17 5:41:50 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
Cross (Don’t ask)

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