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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68376: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:24:05 PM

[up]Too soon?

That'd be my guess.

That and before now they were going for epic fantasy rather than '70s-'80s space opera in the vein of GOTG.

edited 10th Apr '17 12:36:50 PM by Unsung

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68377: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:31:14 PM

I was okay with Natasha hooking up with Bruce because it was something new and because in the end it didn't work out, they were too different and had different priorities

If I felt it was being played up as True Love like say Thor and Jane then that would be one thing. But it was Natasha taking advantage of a new life situation to try something new and see how it worked out.

The tragedy in the end isn't one of star crossed lovers but of a shot at romance that was likely doomed, if not in this circumstance then another one in the future. Hell, Civil War probably

I don't expect them to try to get back together in Infinity War.

Not to say that Natasha's portrayal didn't have problems

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#68378: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:44:37 PM

> Why didn't they use Immigrant Song by Led Zeppelin sooner? It's the perfect Viking song for crying out loud.

It might have been a licensing issue, I imagine it's not exactly cheap

edited 10th Apr '17 12:48:14 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#68379: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:50:17 PM

[up]It's Disney/Marvel. They can afford it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68380: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:54:37 PM

The article you just linked is one of the good ones in this regard, but I think a lot of it just comes down a big old case of Depending on the Writer that's particularly noticeable in Whedon's case because of his particular style and "quirks". Also I find it strange a lot of people accuse him of writing Natasha out of character for traits he codified in the first place with the first Avengers movie, as well as complaining about him having a grudge sabotaging Clintasha out of spite against other writers when he was the one who originated Clintasha Ship Tease in the first place.

I don't know if he's necessarily writing her out of character so much as her having evolved in the hands of other writers since then and Whedon treating those future developments as a case of Fanon Discontinuity which is in character with his original vision of her, which is a much more legitimate complaint. Like, don't get me wrong, there is a lot of stuff to complain about with Whedon but sometimes it sounds like attacking the egg for laying the chicken, and a lot of the time it's just inarticulate Fan Dumb and angry shippers being salty and relying on The Discourse to legitimize opinions post hoc rather than the other way around.

To this day tons of people are still spitting on him and accusing him of being an honest-to-goodness rightwinger and rejecting his anti-Trump GOTV video as insincere and a slap in the face because of what he did to Clintasha. Christ on a fucking cracker.

Joss has a pretty powerful Hatedom in general. Some folks just look for anything to hate him for. It's weird.

When the first Avengers came out, he came under fire for Steve's line, "There's only one God and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that." Some folks were absolutely livid that Steve Rogers would say this, screaming for Joss's head over him shoving his Christian propaganda into their film.

Joss Whedon, I should note, is a notorious humanist who has gone on record multiple times as not following any religion and once referred to the Christian God as "the Sky Bully". Accusing him of trying to brainwash filmgoers into becoming Christians is just hilariously wrong.

edited 10th Apr '17 12:55:42 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#68381: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:58:16 PM

Joss Whedon has done a lot of things that are kind of awful that have earned him his Hatedom. It's not just atributed to his odd writing choices.

Anyways, Ragnarok looks amazing, can't wait for Hela and Valkyrie and Thor and Hulk to all be awesome.

edited 10th Apr '17 12:59:19 PM by higherbrainpattern

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#68382: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:00:52 PM

> Joss Whedon has done a lot of things that are kind of awful that have earned him his Hatedom.

Like what?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#68383: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:02:07 PM

For one, he fired Charisma Carpenter from Angel after she became pregnant, IIRC.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:03:41 PM by higherbrainpattern

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#68384: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:12:52 PM

Well, if that's true nobody ever gets on his case about that. It's always Natasha, Clintasha, and Laura Barton they cite. Or a belief that he personally hates Bucky and is a genuine homophobe (yeah sure, the guy who brought us Willow and Tara is a big ol' gay hater) for not making Stucky or Stony canon. Like a broken fucking record. I am a Bucky and Stucky fan and I think that's fucking stupid.

For fuck's sake stop trying to pass off your fucking shipping bullshit as a genuine moral crusade. Out of control shippers have destroyed enough fandoms already, the Voltron Legendary Defender fandom being a notable case.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:19:55 PM by AlleyOop

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68385: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:19:59 PM

If he did, he certainly dragged his heels about it. Charisma Carpenter was briefly written out of the show in season three due to her pregnancy, but then brought back on early in season four with an entire season-long storyarc written to accommodate it. Then she returned for a guest spot in season five that set up the series finale.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:20:38 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68386: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:20:38 PM

It's not the type of thing a casual media consumer would know about. They tend only to care for what's in front of them.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#68387: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:31:56 PM

And naturally when they hear about it they get up on a high horse without understanding a damn thing

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68388: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:42:17 PM

So again with bashing shippers instead of treating them with cold indifference like what should be done. Seriously, you only give them so much influence by reacting to their stupidity and hating them for it. I'm really annoyed by how people seem to seethe over dumb shippers in fandoms when every fandom around has a bunch of horrible people in them. Why should we care?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68389: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:45:51 PM

Your own attitude isn't really better.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68390: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:47:13 PM

I met Charisma Carpenter at an expo a while back. She brought up being pregnant and how it caused her to leave the show, but while she said Joss was kinda frustrated over it due to all the plots he had in store for her, I never got the impression he fired her over it.

Now, it's possible she pulled her punches due to not wanting to create any controversy.

One Strip! One Strip!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68391: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:47:42 PM

[up][up]

I see no benefit or positive in harping on shitty shippers.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:47:58 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#68392: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:47:49 PM

@Alley Oop: I don't who you're talking to in your diatribe against shippers there, but it better not be me. tongue

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68393: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:48:52 PM

I'm going to second the point about not blaming shippers. There are toxic elements in every aspect of fandom. Not every belligerent anti-shipper is a shipper of another stripe, either; some people just hate shipping.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68394: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:50:47 PM

[up][up][up]You still did that though, in addition to harping on people just for airing a grievance.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68395: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:52:35 PM

More that I'm harping on how this always happens when the topic of shipping comes up. I'm really not looking for an argument about this, I mean no ill will.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:54:12 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68396: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:53:43 PM

Charisma Carpenter left Angel after getting pregnant, but I think the idea that she was fired because of it or wouldn't have been welcome back is a misconception on someone's part. Just saying.

I was actually under the impression that she left because seven years is a pretty long time to work on a show and its spinoffs, and maybe she wanted to spend some time with her family and newborn son, but not because she was forced out or anything.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68397: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:54:01 PM

Does it? Far as I can tell 1 person doesn't bring nearly that much bile as you seem to think.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68398: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:55:07 PM

Possibly I'm more annoyed how this recurs in nearly every fandom I'm in and it gets me really riled up because it feels like picking on an easy target or making a bigger deal about something that ultimately shouldn't be too much of a concern.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#68400: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:56:56 PM

@Unsung: She was indeed fired. This is archived from 2003.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:58:27 PM by higherbrainpattern


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