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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68176: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:59:47 AM

Gonna be honest here: Clancy Brown as the Blacksmith is probably one of the more underrated villains on the TV side of Marvel. He's not in it too much but he gives a hell of a performance when he's on, switching from charming and jovial to insidious and cruel.

Also...seriously, the fuck is a Black Sky? Now they apparently worship whatever the fuck it is? I already got spoiled on Elektra being one but, like, the fuck does it mean? Uber violent indestructible child soldier or some shit? Stick, just fucking explain shit, for god's sake.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68177: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:06:54 PM

[up] Exactly!!!! I gather that you now can follow why I dislike the Hand stuff so much? As well as Stick's non-explanations?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68178: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:14:35 PM

It'd be bad enough of this season didn't explain it but the Black Sky was brought up in the first season

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68179: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:28:07 PM

I'm finally finished.

This season started with a lot of promise. The opening episodes with the Punisher were golden. Jon Bernthal gives a hell of a performance and he's one of the saving graces of this entire season. I don't know whether I'd call him an outright villain due to him being more on the anti-hero side, but hell I don't care, he's fucking great. Elektra, not gonna lie, I was scared I'd hate because of the Hand subplot, but I liked her a lot. I felt that Elodie Yung and Charlie Cox had genuinely good chemistry with each other, which is a lot more than I can say for Charlie Cox and Deborah Ann Woll, because fuck that Karen and Matt romance subplot. Like I'd said earlier, Fisk improves significantly from Season 1 as he begins showing more of his traits as the Kingpin, and Clancy Brown as the Blacksmith was underrated. Madame Gao's cameo was fun too.

Other than that, the Hand bring it downhill. Nobu is only in four episodes, and only in the last two does he have more than a minute of screen time. His motivations are barely there. Why are they collecting blood? I'm assuming it's for reviving people or something? I mean, the thing with Elektra in the coffin seems to support that, but they barely communicate it to the audience. And what else are they doing? Power or some shit? The fuck is a Black Sky, is it like some kind of child soldier/antichrist or whatever? All of the criticism of them being racist are also true. The only diversity they have is one random white woman who is close to Nobu in the last episode, and she's just barely there. Whenever anything about the Hand was on, I wanted to go back to seeing what the Punisher was up to, it was much more interesting.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68180: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:44:25 PM

[up] Yep, pretty much. The saving grace of the back-half was for me mostly Foggy.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68181: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:04:34 PM

I was so glad to see Foggy actually doing lawyer stuff and doing it good. In the first season, I just thought he was kind of a jackass and less moral than Matt, but after all the shit he goes through, I honestly think Matt is the less moral one here, he just pretends he's better because "This is my city!" or some shit.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
HisInfernalMajesty Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#68182: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:12:20 PM

The second half fell apart for me too, but that was mostly because the Punisher storyline was more interesting. I don't entirely get the hate for the Hand though. I actually kind of like their vagueness, and they're a nice, mystical contrast to the corporate criminals of the other shows, like Fisk or Mariah and Cottonmouth or the Meachums (not to say any of those aren't great villains in their own right; in fact they have far more personality).

The Hand to me are to the Netflix shows what Thanos is to the movies. Vague, powerful threat with ambiguous motives and character. All they really need to become really good villains is a Face. Iron Fist fixes some of the racial issues, but I never really found the Hand to be that insensitive; in the comics, the organization originated in Japan, it figures most of their members would be Japanese. Diversifying the Hand to me isn't so much about making it more diverse for the sake of diversity so much as it is showing just how far-reaching their influence is that it pulls in people of multiple ethnic groups.

The controversy also kinda bugs me because I'd love for them to adapt (and vastly improve) Shadowland and have Matt assume command of the Hand for a bit - but then we'd get a Mighty Whitey controversy on top the Yellow Peril - neither of which I really see, but I know others would get up in arms over it.

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68183: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:15:30 PM

I think what would've mitigated it some is if the Chaste had some Japanese people among them as well. In the comics, I think they were founded by one of the original founders of the Hand who split off from them.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68184: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:22:41 PM

Both The Hand and the Chaste being multiracial would have help a lot on the racism controversy, but it wouldn't fix the rest of the issues.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68185: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:25:01 PM

True, it wouldn't fix the entire season being about as bloated as Iron Man 2.

God damn, the comparisons between that and Iron Man 2 are incredibly fair. Main character becomes unsympathetic and the plot gets bloated in order to set up the big team up. Difference is that there's actually an interesting plot going on in Daredevil season two.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68186: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:26:39 PM

Matt really is the Tony Stark of the Netflix verse.

Mostly in the sense people (both in and out of universe) blame him for shit he wasn't even responsible for.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#68188: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:47:38 PM

He also sent Luke to prison, gave Kilgrave his powers, caused the shootout that killed the Castle family, got Simpson, Malcom, and Ward Meachum hooked on drugs, conducted illegal experiments in Seagate, stabbed Elektra, dug a giant hole in Hell's Kitchen, killed Claire's co-worker Louisa, arranged a hit on Battlin' Jack Murdock, and caused Matt's blindness.

edited 7th Apr '17 1:49:59 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68189: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:48:26 PM

He caused his own blindness, the fiend!

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68190: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:58:02 PM

The Defenders is all about Matt teaming up with the other Netflix heroes to save the world from himself. In the climax he beats himself up.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#68191: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:59:40 PM

[up]Did he tell Roman about the Infinity Stone as well? I'm liable to blame him for that whole HYDRA conspiracy thing too.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68193: Apr 7th 2017 at 2:00:01 PM

"It's even his fault my wife left me!"

"Okay, that's a stretch. What could he have possibly done to cause that?"

"He slept with my wife!"

"You know what, fair enough."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68194: Apr 7th 2017 at 2:01:37 PM

The end of the Defenders is Matt performing self-flagellation to repent for his screwups while the rest of the Defenders laugh at him.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68196: Apr 7th 2017 at 3:09:20 PM

Matt is secretly Tony's real father

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#68197: Apr 7th 2017 at 3:12:11 PM

He hired the Winter Soldier to assassinate Howard in order to hide the secret.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68198: Apr 7th 2017 at 3:13:06 PM

Anyways, changing topics, I'm now on episode two of Luke Cage. Holy shit. This show is fucking amazing. The soundtrack, the editing, the acting, the writing, all of it is amazing. Cottonmouth has quickly turned into one of my favorite villains after only one episode. I'm still waiting to see how Mariah, Shades, and Diamondback fare later on (though from what I've heard of Diamondback he's not that good).

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68199: Apr 7th 2017 at 3:15:49 PM

Enjoy the good writing while it lasts. I.e up until episode 7.

Dread the second half Adric-boy

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68200: Apr 7th 2017 at 3:17:08 PM

[up][up][up]He's not just a Daredevil. So when Mephisto shows up in Infinity War, this is all going to make sense.

Yeah, Cottonmouth's the best, and the show's soundtrack? A lot of that is down to his personal taste in-universe. Hard not to like a guy like that. The show also manages to tell so many interconnected stories without feeling crowded. That's what I mean when I say LC has the best supporting cast out of all the Netflix series.

edited 7th Apr '17 3:17:31 PM by Unsung


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