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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68151: Apr 6th 2017 at 6:04:13 PM

[up]Well, yeah. Even his split personalities are going to get him compared to Deadpool, to a certain degree, at least if Deadpool 2 does end up having him converse with himself as the narrator. Not that I necessarily want it to, but it wouldn't surprise me if that happened. Moon Knight's such an obvious pastiche of so many characters that you pretty much need to play up that fact to make the character work.

Legion has schizophrenia, not dissociative identity disorder. And he doesn't exactly have that, either, on the show. I don't mean that to sound like a snippy correction. I'm just saying that with Moon Knight, focusing on the various distinct personas would do a lot to distinguish him from David.

edited 6th Apr '17 9:05:26 PM by Unsung

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68152: Apr 6th 2017 at 8:55:28 PM

Moon Knight is a character that works really well as the protagonist of his own story — whether or not he is surrounded by a supporting cast (like the Moench classic run) or is on his own (like the Ellis run), there is enough time to delve deep into what makes him tick, his multiple personalities, his backstory, and his relationship with Khonshu.

As a guest star? Unless they dedicate the entire episode to him, there's not much you can do. He isn't like the Punisher, where he can act like the villain for a bit — unless you take him all the way back to when he was a mercenary and then he's just, like, a generic mercenary with some mental issues.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68153: Apr 6th 2017 at 10:12:22 PM

So, in case anyone wants to speculate, here is the actual synopsis of the "New Warriors" show:

“Marvel’s New Warriors” is about six young people with powers living and working together. With powers and abilities on the opposite end of the spectrum of The Avengers, the New Warriors want to make a difference in the world… Even if the world isn’t ready. Not quite super, not yet heroes, “Marvel’s New Warriors” is about that time in your life when you first enter adulthood and feel like you can do everything and nothing at once — except in this world, bad guys can be as terrifying as bad dates.
It actually sounds...fun. I mean, it sounds nothing at all like the New Warriors, but still: fun.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68154: Apr 6th 2017 at 10:19:43 PM

Karen's article might have been uncalled for if she weren't talking about MCU NY. Given what that place had been through, I don't think it was wrong.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#68155: Apr 6th 2017 at 10:37:21 PM

I'm fine with the idea that MCU New York is practically a third world country at this point, but I'm not sure they did a good enough job showing it. Like, yes, the Punisher cut a bloody swath through Hell's Kitchen, but that felt like a random act of violence that could happen anywhere, not the same type of violence the city sees every day (albeit more brutal and focused).

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#68156: Apr 6th 2017 at 11:52:26 PM

Something that is amusingly accurate, though, is that the only major disaster any of the Netflix characters mention is the Chitauri invasion, which they simply refer to as "the Incident", because what else could they possibly be referring to? SHIELD helicarriers falling from the sky after a Hydra coup? Dark Elves attacking London? An insane robot almost destroying the world and actually destroying an entire city-state? None of those happened in New York, so no one really cares.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68157: Apr 6th 2017 at 11:59:28 PM

[up][up] it was stated since the first episode of Daredevil that the Chitauri invasion is why the city is in such a state.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68158: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:16:02 AM

Thing is, it doesn't feel that dangerous anymore. I mean, the article might have worked at the end of season 1, in which we spend our time seeing the city burn. But season 2? Yeah, the Punisher was terrifying, but he was killing only criminals, and yes, later on there were people killed in the cover-up, but none of this has the quality of "we live in a freaking war zone!!!!" And listening to this article while people drown on sea en mass trying to reach the EU for a better life - it just grates. Even the incident was isolated to a few very specific blocks.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68159: Apr 7th 2017 at 1:25:23 AM

I don't recall how much time had passed between season's one and two but I don't think it was much, meaning the wounds are still felt fresh. You're also forgetting the people the mob targeted to lure find the Punisher, the people the Hand kidnapped to draw out Daredevil, Kilgrave, and all the issues going on in Harlem. And that's just the stuff the audience is shown because of its importance to the plot. Don't even get me started on whatever it is the Defenders will have to deal with.

I mean, what did you want Karen's article to say exactly?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68160: Apr 7th 2017 at 6:57:53 AM

What the hell does it mean that the New Warriors have powers on the opposite side of the spectrum from the Avengers?

The Avengers range from really skilled non powered people, a prince in a bulletproof suit, people wearing powered armor, an actual God, and an artificial intelligence powered by a stone of cosmic power

That's a pretty wide range already

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#68161: Apr 7th 2017 at 6:59:43 AM

And Squirrel Girl has all the powers of squirrel...and girl. So yeah. (I think it just means that they might have lesser powers like that. Although Squirrel Girl is awesome, dammit.)

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68162: Apr 7th 2017 at 7:02:56 AM

I'll never forgive that one Fantastic Four show for dismissing her

You are a fool, Johnny Storm

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#68163: Apr 7th 2017 at 7:05:21 AM

[up][up] She also has all the powers of a comp sci student!

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68164: Apr 7th 2017 at 7:06:31 AM

And the powers of friendship

Which are really powerful actually

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68165: Apr 7th 2017 at 7:15:34 AM

What the hell does it mean that the New Warriors have powers on the opposite side of the spectrum from the Avengers?

What do you mean? There power sets are equally diverse.

Night Thrasher - martial artist in power armor

Justice - Telekinesis

Firestar - microwave manipulation

Nova - Cosmic powered helmet

Namorita - super strength

Silhouette - teleportation through shadows

Rage - super strength

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68166: Apr 7th 2017 at 7:18:42 AM

I think Karen's article would have been much stronger if it had addressed the issues of Superheroes in general, of the morality of vigilantes and how normal people shouldn't feel less because they don't have special powers because their good deeds are worth just as much if not more. Honestly, I would have been okay with everything which didn't act as if New York is the most dangerous place on earth.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68167: Apr 7th 2017 at 7:23:35 AM

As far as the people who live there are concerned it is. And I don't think her message was any less inspirational.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68168: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:14:53 AM

Attempts at perspective like "people elsewhere have it worse" just tend to piss people off in my experience

[up][up][up] Don't ask me, I was questioning the show's solicit

edited 7th Apr '17 9:16:24 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68169: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:29:11 AM

Well Squirrel Girl's powers sound incredibly stupid at first. That's why she's a Lethal Joke Character. You wouldn't expect a teenage girl who can talk to squirrels to beat up Thanos; that's the joke.

Can't speak for the rest of the characters though. Perhaps they just meant they're less experienced.

edited 7th Apr '17 9:29:24 AM by comicwriter

HisInfernalMajesty Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#68170: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:38:32 AM

It's been awhile since I've watched the scene but I thought "normal people are just as heroic as superheroes/vigilantes" was what Karen's article said, albeit with the added "New York is the center of the universe" angle. But even then, New York's always been the center of the Marvel universe. What little of a relationship exists between Spider-Man and Cap exists because they're both New Yorkers so there's that mutual respect. Same with Punisher and Daredevil. Love it or hate it, the city's as much a character in Marvel as any of its heroes. The article was narmy as hell but it had some charm to it. If there's any problem I have with it, it's that it's too hopeful and bright compared to the very dark, broken ending season 2 has.

Late to the game here too, but in regards to Moon Knight: A friend of mine suggested what they should do is have each of his personalities cameo in a different Defenders title. Steven Grant shows up to a Rand charity event. Jake Lockley gives Jessica a lift. Marc Spector figures into Luke Cage somehow. Moon Knight himself appears briefly to give Matt some competition as another rare costumed vigilante. And then give him his own series after building him up in the background.

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#68171: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:46:25 AM

Something something microcosm synecdoche New York. It's meant to be universal— it doesn't have to be Hell's Kitchen or New York, and it could be anywhere, really. It just happens that the Kitchen has a nice poetic name that's fun to say, and fits in with the melting pot you-are-all-welcome-here mentality of New York. Now more than ever it's probably worth trying to earn that back.

It's a speech that doesn't hit home as well as it could because DD Season 2 doesn't really earn it in its second half. But I think assuming that it's meant to be dismissive of suffering outside New York is misreading the intention.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68172: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:15:39 AM

[up][up] Yeah, that was what it said in the end, but it didn't really built up to it. It was what I call a hollow fluff piece and a terrible written one on top of it.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68173: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:17:48 AM

Ugh...two more episodes of Season 2 of Daredevil left. I apologize for going at a snail's pace on this, but every time the Hand show up I'm left thinking to myself "I just wanna watch Luke Cage already, damn it". I'll probably finish up Daredevil, take a break, listen to some Jethro Tull, and then get to Luke Cage.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68174: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:22:57 AM

I don't care about Karen's article.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68175: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:49:48 AM

I missed it. What article did she write?

One Strip! One Strip!

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