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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#68076: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:20:48 PM

I just wish he had a labcoat

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68077: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:20:57 PM

If we see any previously used villains, I'd want Doc Ock. Octavius in the greater MCU would be phenomenal. For similar reasons as wanting to Vulture or Tinker survive Homecoming: a free agent supplier of tech and mad science to the nefarious, active for a long period of time in the universe, meddling and doing nasty deeds as a recurrer? I'd adore it.

Also, for some reason, I really want to see Doc Ock vs Captain America. I don't know why, it just feels like the kind of fight that would be really fun to see.

edited 5th Apr '17 8:23:28 PM by KnownUnknown

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#68078: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:22:58 PM

I think I'd like to see Mysterio in a movie, because he seems like someone that Spidey can't just defeat via a combination of web-swinging, strength, and durability. I prefer villains that the hero needs to think their way around.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68079: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:26:29 PM

A lot of Spider-Man's villains are mainly puzzles for him to try and out think instead of overpower.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68080: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:30:25 PM

Here's a more comprehensive thing about Deb Whitman from here

Deb Whitman was first introduced in Spectacular Spider-Man #36 as the rather absent-minded secretary of Graduate School Professor Morris Sloan. Debra was unique as far as Spidey femme fatales go, as she was the closest to truly being an ordinary young woman. Deb was cute and attractive, but not the bombshell that Gwen, Mary Jane, and Felicia were. She was also shy and withdrawn, and not the bombastic personality that MJ and Felicia definitely were, and Gwen could be on a good day when she wasn't crying. As it turned out, she had been previously married and physically abused by her scumbag husband who she is currently only separated from. She really was a good character, and frankly, remains one of my faves, although she did have a finite effective life span.

Peter's relationship with Deb was a classic study of how much Peter had changed since he became Spider-Man, and it wasn't always for the better. Being Spider-Man had given him more confidence and the ability to speak up and take care of himself, but it also made it a lot easier for him to run over and misuse a weaker personality. While he sympathized with Deb, it seemed like he had a hard time coming up with some true compassion. After relationships with Gwen and Mary Jane, who in addition to being strong independent women (before Gwen started crying on daddy's shoulder every issue), were able to keep him on his toes and threaten him with consequences if he didn't shape up, it was all too easy for him to cast Deb aside, dump on her, and blow her off. It was as if a woman with overt emotional needs was a drag on him. He never made time for her, and she didn't have enough self-confidence to force him to do so. It's clear that Deb saw flashes of that caring, nurturing, sensitive side that had attracted Betty Brant to him so many years earlier. But Peter's relationship with Betty dissolved largely as a direct result of his personality taking a harder edge, and Deb's and Peter's relationship essentially was a non-starter because he just couldn't bring himself to come down to her level. In fact, this was one of the few times I was truly aggravated with Peter Parker. Deb was literally throwing herself at him, and he kept deserting her - the most egregious time in issue #215, where beaten up after a battle as Spider-Man, he has the balls to show up on Deb’s door looking for a caring hand, and after he passes out, she bandages him up and cooks him a hot meal. When he comes to - he deserts her. Soon after, she starts seeing an old boyfriend from college, Biff Rifkin. Even though she thinks she loves Peter, at least the old boyfriend had time for her and was willing to do relatively mundane things like take her to movies and sit and watch TV with her (and as we later learn, the old boyfriend wasn’t such a bad guy after all, although he came across early on as an obnoxious preppie). I guess you could say that this time, rather than her not being good enough for Peter, it was the reverse.

But Deb deserved a better send off than she got, as she was turned from an emotionally troubled woman to a psychotic loon who talked to stuffed animals in a typical "all women are crazy" storyline. After Peter clubs Biff during a confrontation in Spectacular #68 Deb follows Peter to the roof and sees Spider-Man swing off, and makes the only reasonable deduction possible to a person of above average intelligence. After this is milked for a few months, it finally comes to a head when Debbie tells her shrink, and he confronts Peter (which should have cost him his license). Turns out that Debbie is mentally unstable and confuses reality with fantasy and she "knows" that Peter just can't be Spider-Man, and thus she's really crazy for thinking so and she has to be “shocked” (figuratively, not literally for those who remember former Senator and one time George Mc Govern running mate Thomas Eagleton - yes, I'm dating myself) back to reality. So - Peter does this by confessing to being Spider-Man to her, and since she "knows" he can't be, she rationalizes it by saying that he made it up merely to convince her that she wasn't crazy - oh what a wonderful thing to do - now years of depression, self-loathing, and mental illness are swept away and she hops on a bus to the land of forgotten supporting characters. Of course it doesn't make any damn sense. As mentioned earlier, the deck was being cleared for Felicia Hardy to take a prominent role in the titles, and as she was a far more interesting character to explore, Debbie and the other potential romantic red herrings had to go. Not a problem. Unfortunately, the writers took the cheap way out in sending Debbie packing. I would have let her keep the knowledge that Peter was Spider-Man, and I would have had Peter be the one to confront the abusive husband and convince Deb to finally divorce him. Debbie would have realized that as much as she liked Peter, frankly, she didn't want to be involved with a man like him, in other words, constantly on the go, constantly facing danger, and unwilling or unable to make enough time for her and her needs. She would have to be the most important thing in his life - bar none. And of course, since Peter could not possibly do this, it would have been the real trigger to drive him right into the arms of the Black Cat, the one person who did understand and even liked his lifestyle. Indirectly, that is exactly what happened.

edited 5th Apr '17 8:30:40 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#68082: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:35:41 PM

I repeat: the fuck, Peter?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68083: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:39:53 PM

Protagonist-Centered Morality at its best. It's one of those nasty situations where "protagonist" in that case doesn't include their close friends or family (as it usually does), and thus stories are written where they can take advantage of them freely and still be presented as the just, levelheaded everyman, being treated "unfairly" whenever their actions negatively harm them.

Deb came back during Civil War. She wrote an (exaggerated) book about how much of a shit Peter is, made millions, got threatened by Betty Brant (who gives her a speech about how she has all the reason in the world to hate Peter to, but doesn't), then we found out that her editor made her exaggerate it or something and iirc the two became friends.

And then I suppose One More Day went and took away that success, with a lot of different developments supporting characters went through at the time.

edited 5th Apr '17 8:41:45 PM by KnownUnknown

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#68084: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:54:00 PM

Bit late, but:

If I was doing it, I'd cast every character who's ever been the Hobgoblin to be in the film. And during press releases and cast interviews and shit, I'd have all of them talk as though their character was the Hobgoblin.

Iron Man 3 already proved that Marvel is perfectly willing to lie to the audience before the movie is actually out. Kingsley was lying through his teeth in every single interview, and even the toys gave his character some weird mecha thing to imply he was the final boss. So yeah, I can see this working.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#68085: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:56:41 PM

May be the Hobgoblin is the real Mandarin!

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#68086: Apr 5th 2017 at 8:57:01 PM

I love how we use the term "final boss" in media other than video games now.

And that isn't sarcasm. I genuinely love it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68087: Apr 5th 2017 at 9:16:31 PM

In some cases really is the best way to describe a villain, sometimes for the better, others not.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#68088: Apr 5th 2017 at 9:47:29 PM

Betty you can't police someone's reaction to your shithead ex

I think the book having exaggerations and lies kind of ruined a good story opportunity though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#68089: Apr 5th 2017 at 9:58:00 PM

One day Peter Parker's gonna have his own League of (Rightfully-Pissed Not-So) Evil Exes

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68090: Apr 5th 2017 at 10:21:02 PM

[up]Kind of like the original League of Evil Exes?

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#68091: Apr 5th 2017 at 10:47:17 PM

Okay, new rule here: anyone who read about Deb Whitman is never allowed to complain about being "friendzoned" ever again. EVER. tongue

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#68092: Apr 5th 2017 at 11:11:26 PM

I kind of feel like nobody that unironically uses the term "friendzone" would bother to read about Deb Whitman in the first place, but I agree.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#68093: Apr 5th 2017 at 11:21:39 PM

Hey, Adric, how is your Netflix watch going? I gathered you finished DD S2?

Concerning Spider-man, for now I just want a villain who doesn't have personal ties to Peter Parker. Or even Spider-man.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68094: Apr 5th 2017 at 11:31:14 PM

I was first introduced to the character by Spiderman The Animated Series, which has a very different take on her. It was a real surprise to see what her story was like in the comics.

Amusingly, even in the show her romantic prospects don't end the best - the writers gave her a thing for Morbius, which was always going to fail because they were more invested in sticking him with Black Cat. I think she ended up with Flash.

edited 6th Apr '17 12:00:48 AM by KnownUnknown

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#68095: Apr 6th 2017 at 1:20:31 AM

I'm not overly familiar with the 90's show, but I know enough about it to be rather bemused that they gave Morbius such a major role. Where did that idea come from? Was there ever a time that he was big in the comics?

Oh God! Natural light!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68096: Apr 6th 2017 at 1:29:04 AM

A quick glance at That Other Wiki says that Morbius had just gotten a major comeback run in the comics a year or two before the series came out, which could explain it.

Or it could be that the 90's show was really, really big on mutated, half human villains that could be given a shared origin with him (turning several other of his enemies and allies into mutates as well), and Morbius - looking back on it - being played very heavily as an Evil Counterpart to Peter himself at first, before they retooled him into a good guy.

Also, that series loved its Anti Villains and rarely let one go without a lot of use.

edited 6th Apr '17 1:30:01 AM by KnownUnknown

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#68097: Apr 6th 2017 at 2:41:48 AM

Here's a more comprehensive thing about Deb Whitman from here

As the author of this blog said in another article regarding Harry, Peter Parker is a lousy friend

I just realized that the Morbuis/Black Cat thing is another relationship between a Bat and a Cat.

edited 6th Apr '17 2:44:38 AM by windleopard

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68098: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:48:30 AM

Janet McTeer has joined Jessica Jones Season 2 in a "key role", described as "an undisclosed character who will have an enormous impact on Jessica’s life."

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#68099: Apr 6th 2017 at 8:05:17 AM

Ooh, that's intriguing. I wonder if she has something to do with IGH.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#68100: Apr 6th 2017 at 8:07:19 AM

Current rumor floating around is that Stallone's character is Starhawk.

edited 6th Apr '17 8:07:32 AM by comicwriter


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