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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#67677: Mar 26th 2017 at 7:22:23 PM

Stick is the worst/best.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#67679: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:01:45 PM

You don't need to "dread" the rest of Season 2. It doesn't suddenly explode into the worst show ever out of nowhere, it just sorta unravels into a messy set of disconnected plots.

And Stick is the best. I'm really glad to see he'll be in Defenders, I wanna see him bring his... "special" brand of mentorship to the other three.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#67680: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:13:21 PM

I'm hoping he and Jessica end up getting along really well in a Snark-to-Snark Combat sort of way, pissing off Matt to no end.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#67681: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:27:56 PM

I've never been a huge fan of Stick, or they way he's the vehicle for the writers expecting us to become invested in the plot while refusing to explain jack. It doesn't help that he's basically the face of the Hand plotline in Daredevil, and the whole thing being a mess is so well reflected in his upending Matt's life and screwing around with his mission while not giving anything positive in return.

So I'd greatly enjoy it if there were a few characters in Defenders who straight up didn't take any of his shit. Jessica and Luke, most likely.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#67682: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:28:19 PM

I guess they're going all in with Thor finally having a helmet now. Makes sense if he's going to be a gladiator.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#67683: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:30:50 PM

[up][up]That's kind of what I'm hoping for. Matt puts up with Stick, but the other three have no attachments and should be more than willing to tell him to go fuck himself. Which will piss him off.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#67684: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:34:31 PM
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67686: Mar 27th 2017 at 12:51:28 AM

Stick was interesting enough in the first season, but in the second season his non-explanations became more than annoying. For someone who talks that much exposition he has very little to say. Like I said already, one of the main problems is that they are more concerned with justifying the existence of the hand to the audience instead of simply explaining what they want.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67687: Mar 27th 2017 at 5:04:30 AM

Profile of the Vulture.

He runs a salvage company that cleans up after superhero battles, which is how he and Shocker get the tech for their weapons.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#67688: Mar 27th 2017 at 5:51:47 AM

Sounds like they're going for a less two dimensional villain this time, which makes sense for Spidey. Though they've said stuff to that effect before.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#67689: Mar 27th 2017 at 6:26:35 AM

Okay, so I've been thinking of a possible Iron Man 4, where Riri Williams replaces Tony Stark, on and off ever since I mentioned it, and after an unhealthy amount of obsessing over it, I think I have a working synopsis. Lemmie pitch this thing, tell me if it is any good.

Tony is getting old, but he refuses to retire as Iron Man since he doesn't trust the world in any hands but his own, so he continues fighting terrorism as Iron Man. Riri Williams is a young genius who goes to MIT, and she makes an Iron Man suit using nothing but knowledge that it exists, basic understanding of how it functions, and stolen materials from MIT. Ezekiel Stane is Obadiah Stane's son, and he is also a genius who goes to MIT, and he hates Tony Stark, both on a personal level, and on an inventor's level. Zeke is very similar to a young Tony Stark, and he invents a robot named Technovore, which here is a small robot pet that kind of looks like a 1 foot tall mechanical Guzzlord, from Pokemon. The nanomachines Technovore is known for still exist, but they're inside the little robot, being used for its digestion and integration of technology, which causes it to get bigger and more advanced. Zeke is also obsessed with enhancing his own body with bio-mechanical implants.

Riri fights some crime on her own, before Tony finds her and they talk. Tony and Zeke also have a not so friendly chat. Riri and Zeke know of each other, but they don't know each other personally. Tony takes Riri back to his lab and she geeks out over his tech. Eventually, Zeke enhances himself and Technovore eats enough that he feels they're ready to fight Tony. Tony and Riri fight Technovore and defeat it, but Tony is incapacitated in the process. Riri goes on to fight and defeat Zeke, with special emphasis placed on how similar Zeke is to Tony, yet Riri is Stark's successor. Tony joins Rhodey in retirement, finally confident in leaving his responsibility in someone else's hands.

The movie ends with Tony in a press conference. The reporters ask him is the rumors about his retirement hold any weight, and who would replace him if they do. He motions Riri on stage, she's super awkward and nervous. He tells her to just say what he told her to say. She takes a deep breath, and says "I am Iron Man."

edited 27th Mar '17 6:44:52 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#67691: Mar 27th 2017 at 9:03:41 AM

[up][up] I'd totally see it. (Although technically her superhero name is Ironheart.)

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67692: Mar 27th 2017 at 9:09:01 AM

I enjoyed this bit from the narrator.

“My whole approach for this movie is that we’ve seen the penthouse level of the (Marvel) universe,” says director Jon Watts (Cop Car). “We’ve seen what it’s like to be a billionaire inventor and to be a Norse god. We’ve seen the very top of this world. But we’ve never seen what it’s like to be just a regular joe.”

(Though I'd argue Ant-Man was a working class character.)

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67693: Mar 27th 2017 at 11:12:12 AM

Not quite, Ant-man is a professional thief who just tried the regular life and failed the minute something went wrong.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67694: Mar 27th 2017 at 11:18:51 AM

.He wasn't really doing the professional thief thing anymore by the start of the movie, and only went back to it when he got fired from his job. Hence why I said I considered him.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#67695: Mar 27th 2017 at 11:38:28 AM

Though he's being funded and essentially hired by a rich guy.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67696: Mar 27th 2017 at 12:07:50 PM

Well, yes, the movie abandoned that idea and had him essentially moving in with the Pyms to help out the heist, but prior to that I did think they were at least toying around with the idea of Scott being a more relatable everyman. He's not a billionaire or a super soldier or a God or an award winning scientist or a spy, and in fact is probably one of the most "normal" of the heroes we've seen so far.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#67697: Mar 27th 2017 at 1:40:06 PM

Well, he was working class before he became Ant-Man, so almost.

The more Spider-Man has to juggle his ordinary life with his burgeoning superhero career, the happier I'll be. I'm in.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67698: Mar 27th 2017 at 5:38:27 PM

Nope, he was a thief who became briefly honest by working for a company until he took revenge on said company. Steve is more working class than he is.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#67699: Mar 27th 2017 at 6:20:40 PM

Steve hasn't been working class for over 70 years.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#67700: Mar 27th 2017 at 7:00:48 PM

Just rewatched Civil War, and have decided I disagree with the oft-cited claim that Zemo's plan was overly convoluted. The distinction is that much, even most, of the stuff that happens in the movie isn't orchestrated or planned by Zemo.

His plan basically has three phases.

1) Get to a Hydra agent and get information on (what he theorizes - correctly - is) Bucky's assasination of the Starks. Only half successful - he gets the codebook with the control words, but not the information he wants.

2) Second attempt on getting the information. This is the most complicated of them. Bomb the UN and frame Bucky so Bucky gets arrested. Pose as the psychiatrist to get in to see Bucky (this bit is the weakest, because it's not believable that a high-security institution wouldn't check that the psychiatrist's appearance matched the guy they'd called in - the movie should have had Zemo wearing some kind of facial disguise like the ones in Winter Solider). Use the code words and find out what happened from Bucky. I'm not sure he actually had time to get the "mission report" he wanted at this point, but he did get the location of the facility.

3) Head to the facility and find the recording of the assassination (and kill the remaining Winter Soldiers). Contact the hotel so that he's found out and the Avengers can track him to the facility.

Stage 2 is high-risk, but none of it's based on especially specific assumption of what his enemies will do. About the only assumptions he needs to make are that there will be an international manhunt for Bucky if he's connected with a terrorist attack (fairly reasonable assumption), and that the Avengers will go after him if they think he's planning to reactivate the other Winter Soldiers.

The Sokovia Accords and the initial split between the Avengers were never part of the plan - and the Accords could have made the whole thing pointless if everyone had signed, because then the Avengers would never have gone to Siberia, because Russia would never have agreed to authorize them to go. It was pure luck for Zemo that the Accords ended up working in his favour. Zemo could still have sent the video to Tony anonymously, but without the context of the moment, it wouldn't have had as powerful an impact.

It only seems convoluted if you assume that the entire conflict between the Avengers was orchestrated by Zemo, rather than just the final fight between Cap and Stark being orchestrated.


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