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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#67526: Mar 23rd 2017 at 5:36:00 AM

Yeah, Jessica Jones was just very thematically well done, and it was one hell of a character study, which I enjoyed. And, adding to the discussion about Will Simpson, I really loved how the show used him to deconstruct our heroic view of toxic masculinity. And Kilgrave was one hell of a villain. David Tennant really brought the right amount of creepiness and, weirdly enough, charisma to that role. It is definitely my favorite of the Netflix shows. (I mean, I haven't watched Iron Fist yet, but I can't imagine it would be much better than JJ, because the latter was just so good.)

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67527: Mar 23rd 2017 at 6:55:32 AM

[up][up][up][up]The deal with Universal means Marvel can't make a solo Hulk film, but I don't think that extends to having his supporting cast show up in other movies. You could conceivably have She-Hulk show up in an Avengers sequel without issue.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#67528: Mar 23rd 2017 at 6:59:10 AM

[Spider-Man] Spinoffs won't be connected to the mcu

Booooooo. [tdown] [tdown] sad

edited 23rd Mar '17 6:59:28 AM by TargetmasterJoe

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#67529: Mar 23rd 2017 at 7:00:59 AM

Is it impossible to imagine the movie might be good regardless of connections to the MCU?

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#67530: Mar 23rd 2017 at 7:06:30 AM

Well separate from the MCU seems like a problem to the extent it means "Spider-Man won't be in the movie". I don't think that's as much of a problem with the proposed Black Cat and Silver Sable movie, because that sounds like a cool spy/caper movie, even though I'll miss those characters interacting with Peter.

However, I'm not thrilled by the idea of a separate Venom movie, unless it was about Flash/a heroic character as Agent Venom or Venom Space-Knight. Because Eddie Brock/ a Venom who is an Ax-Crazy vigilante who eats brains, seems more like someone who should be an antagonist in a Spider-Man movie rather than the protagonist of his own movie. Especially because even if you like that super-powered Punisher aspect of Eddie (which I don't), the main thing he's known for is being the second guy to wear the symbiote after Peter and sharing with the symbiote a murderous hatred of Peter.

edited 23rd Mar '17 7:08:53 AM by Hodor2

BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#67531: Mar 23rd 2017 at 7:06:44 AM

[up]Not like something needs to be good to be connected to MCU.

35 year old white man.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67532: Mar 23rd 2017 at 7:10:57 AM

Certainly not (as Deadpool and Logan recently reaffirmed), but the issue becomes a little more complicated by the fact that Sony's current main Spider-Man series is explicitly MCU canon. Are they not going to use Spider-Man in these spin-offs to avoid contradiction, or are they going to introduce their own, alternate take on Spider-Man unconnected to Tom Holland's version?

The former could easily work for Silver Sable and Black Cat (particularly since Sable has fronted her own solo series in the past), but a Venom movie without Spider-Man would be...awkward, to say the least. Unless you just completely redesign him so that he no longer looks like an evil version of Spider-Man. As it stands, it'd kind of be like WB making a Bizarro movie and trying to pretend the fact that he looks like Superman, has a similar costume, and uses the same powers is a complete coincidence.

And then if you introduce a new Spidey, that's needlessly confusing. Venom would hit theaters the same Summer either Infinity War or Avengers 4 hit theaters, both of which will feature Tom Holland's Spider-Man. Seems messy to have two alternate, competing Spideys on the big screen the same year.

edited 23rd Mar '17 7:11:24 AM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67533: Mar 23rd 2017 at 7:33:01 AM

Iron Fist has its own set of strength....aside from salvaging the Hand, the show offers a wonderful slew of morally ambiguous characters. Which I love. The other Netflix shows tend to put every character into a category eventually, there is no doubt who are the good guys and who are the bad guys at the end of the day. But Iron Fist allows characters do make decisions you keep questioning...and that extents to Danny himself, which might be one of the reasons why the reviewers are so hard on him, but I love this aspect of his character. I mean, there is never a doubt that he means well, but meaning well doesn't necessarily means that his decisions are always morally totally sound. It is kind of normal that our heroes break the law on a general basis and that they aren't always nice people, but Danny muddles along more often than not. And his supporting cast...oh boy, are they hard to put into any category.

[up] Three Spider-mans, since there is also the animated movie.

edited 23rd Mar '17 7:34:32 AM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#67534: Mar 23rd 2017 at 7:34:13 AM

I mean that was the only logical move really

Marvel is working with Sony so they get creative control over the Spider Man movie so it meshes with the MCU.

They're probably not going to have such control over the spinoffs so they're not going to be in continuity

I guess there's a Venn diagram sorta thing

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67535: Mar 23rd 2017 at 8:07:51 AM

[up][up]The animated Spider-Man isn't an issue, since I don't think anyone is going to confuse a cartoon spin-off with the actual live-action movies. It'd be like if people were asking why doesn't Lego Batman share continuity with Batman v. Superman or The Dark Knight.

[up]My point is why is Sony allowing there to be non-canon spin-offs of the franchise made when the whole point of making the deal with Marvel was them basically admitting they'd run the franchise into the ground and needed Marvel to salvage it.

edited 23rd Mar '17 8:08:48 AM by comicwriter

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67536: Mar 23rd 2017 at 8:24:21 AM

Some set photos from the Infinity War shoot currently going on in Scotland, featuring Scarlet Witch and Vision. Spoilers, obviously.

edited 23rd Mar '17 8:24:48 AM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67537: Mar 23rd 2017 at 8:40:41 AM

Moving on to Season 2 of Daredevil now. It takes it like four episodes before it begins to suck, right? Because I know I'm gonna have a fun time making fun of this.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#67538: Mar 23rd 2017 at 8:42:04 AM

Once the ninjas show up, the show goes to shit. So, yeah, about four episodes in.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#67539: Mar 23rd 2017 at 8:50:39 AM

[up]I wouldn't go that far, but they don't have a real Third Dimension till Iron Fist.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#67540: Mar 23rd 2017 at 9:06:08 AM

At some point DD2 becomes two different shows which seldom seem connected. Is how I looked at it.

edited 23rd Mar '17 9:06:20 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#67541: Mar 23rd 2017 at 9:21:42 AM

And one of them is substantially shittier than the other.

Bernthal's Punisher is easily the best part of the season. Also, best depiction of the Punisher since Thomas Jane. I still rank Jane's Punisher above Bernthal's, but it's close. Damned close.

And while I will never stop hating the stupid Matt/Karen subplot, the diner scene where Frank talks about love and we get to see how much of a hardcore romantic he is...that scene is easily one of the best in the season. It's not an aspect of the character that gets talked about much, but of course Frank is a diehard romantic. If he didn't love his family with every ounce of his soul, he wouldn't be killing people today.

edited 23rd Mar '17 9:23:28 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#67542: Mar 23rd 2017 at 9:23:36 AM

Yeah, that is the thing. The main character leaves behind the interesting plot. Literally loses all interest in it and goes off to the worst side of the fork.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#67543: Mar 23rd 2017 at 9:50:56 AM

[up][up] Much more sympathetic than Garth Ennis' idea that Frank was always a killer and does it cause he enjoys it.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#67544: Mar 23rd 2017 at 9:57:56 AM

[up]Garth Ennis loves guys like that though.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#67545: Mar 23rd 2017 at 10:01:10 AM

Yeah, Ennis wrote a lot of great stuff with the Punisher, but that bit was just obnoxious.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#67546: Mar 23rd 2017 at 10:05:30 AM

Netflix Punisher in general is interesting because of the decision to slide the character back to pre-Garth Ennis characterization. Garth Ennis's imprint on the character was making Castle a ruthless Blood Knight who loves what he does and is a stone-hearted, emotionless killing machine and there's the usual implication that he kills people not out of any sense of righteousness or vengeance for his family but just because he's a rampaging psychopath who wants a war to fight in. And this characterization sort of became Frank's standard.

The show slides him back to pre-Ennis days, when Punisher was a legitimate family whose Blood Knight traits are toned way down and far more capable of feeling emotions and empathy for people.

Ennis Punisher would probably never have anything like the graveyard speech.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67547: Mar 23rd 2017 at 10:07:36 AM

Yeah, that bit in the first episode of season two with Karen and Matt playing pool was just...ugh. She had better chemistry with Foggy, if I'm gonna be honest.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Cross (Don’t ask)
#67548: Mar 23rd 2017 at 10:10:40 AM

That's a common complaint, most people believe she had chemistry with everyone other than Matt.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#67549: Mar 23rd 2017 at 10:13:04 AM

I'm on the minority, I like their relationship fine as it is.

Though when Bullseye shows up watch the fuck out.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67550: Mar 23rd 2017 at 10:15:21 AM

How come?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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