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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#67451: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:09:06 PM

Well, yeah. That's what was cool about it.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#67452: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:10:00 PM

So apparently Avengers: Infinity War's working title is Marylou. Wonder what the significance of that is.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67453: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:20:37 PM

Fuck it, I'm gonna keep watching some more Jessica Jones. Malcolm is starting to become one of my favorite characters after he sobers up. I'm still surprised this is the same actor who was on Power Rangers RPM, but then again that show was incredibly well acted and fairly dark for a Power Rangers show.

Also, I can see the bits of Simpson's personality that I can tell get kind of worse as he loses his sanity. He's a bit...over protective, I should say? Like, he means well, but he has a bit of a mean streak to him that I know is gonna get worse.

Also, those twins creep me out. Just...fuck them both, I hate them. Annoying little buggers.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#67454: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:21:53 PM

Mm.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#67455: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:27:15 PM

The brother is actually a nice enough guy, if awkward. Robin on the other hand is super obnoxious.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67456: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:41:15 PM

He's less nice guy and more of a general creep to me. If he hadn't had been killed he probably would've fit the dogged nice guy mold.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Cross (Don’t ask)
#67457: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:48:50 PM

Part of me felt there was suppose to be more to them, but there ended up being nothing other than the incest vibes.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67458: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:53:46 PM

Oh god, the friggin' incest vibes were disturbing.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#67459: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:55:42 PM

I legitimately thought that there was supposed to be incest as I was watching because they laid it on so thick.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67460: Mar 21st 2017 at 10:00:20 PM

I thought it was incest as well, then I read someone else's take and it made more sense.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#67461: Mar 21st 2017 at 10:05:33 PM

They're screwed up, but not bad people. 'Everyone's got their issues' is a bit of a recurring theme in Jessica Jones.

Robyn and Ruben are weirdly close, but the impression I got is that they were abuse or trauma survivors as well. We just don't get to see it, because they're supposed to come across as creepy and antagonistic. The point being that, unlike Malcolm, unlike Jessica herself, not everyone gets the chance to show there's more to them than their surface damage.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67462: Mar 21st 2017 at 10:11:08 PM

I don't know how popular this opinion is gonna be, but I feel the urge to say it: David Tennant as Kilgrave is infinitely better than Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk. Don't get me wrong, Fisk was a great villain, but Kilgrave is just...oh god, he's such a mix of terrifying, frustrating, hilarious, and just all around creepy.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#67463: Mar 21st 2017 at 10:12:11 PM

The Netflix villains in general have been very well-regarded other than the Hand and Diamondback.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67464: Mar 21st 2017 at 10:52:08 PM

OK, gonna actually pause now, got done with episode eight. The TV show villains in general are pretty damn good, much better than most of the movie villains (bar maybe Loki, Zemo, and if I wanted to be charitable maybe Ultron, if only because I have a soft spot for him). They're more developed and given more focus to shine the most.

Honestly, so far my favorite TV villains are probably a three way tie between Kilgrave, Dr. Faustus, and Hive (I would add Aida but I wanna wait until after the current season of Agents of SHIELD is over first). The latter two mostly because of how compelling their presence was, and the former because of my earlier description. Seriously, Kilgrave leaves me with so many damn mixed emotions because of how he acts. I mean, most of those emotions are about how goddamn rape-y he is (his constant excuses towards his behavior make me feel nauseated), but he's just so friggin'...god damn it, I can't think of the word. Perplexing? Disturbing? Enigmatic?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#67465: Mar 21st 2017 at 11:14:11 PM

[up] I'd say that John Garrett also is up there with great Marvel TV villains, just because Bill Paxton played him with such glee and humor.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#67466: Mar 21st 2017 at 11:23:02 PM

I find Kilgrave better in terms of sheer charisma and ability to be thoroughly loathsome. But I find Wilson Fisk by far the most complex out of all the current comic book media villains. Even Loki is ultimately a spoiled brat and not much else. Fisk is just this ball of good intentions, viciousness and efficiency with a dash of crippling mental trauma.

In terms of what they stand for, they both have some pretty deep meanings. Kilgrave standing for things like rape culture and male privilege and Fisk standing for things like gentrification and social privilege.

But of course, my favorite comic book villain of current media adaptations is actually Madam Gao so moral complexity might be overrated considering the deep philosophical meanings of Madam Gao are "she's cool as shit".

edited 21st Mar '17 11:23:37 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#67467: Mar 21st 2017 at 11:33:18 PM

Indeed.

I'm so glad they've made her a recurring character rather than just killing her off like the rest of the crime bosses. Never Mess with Granny

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67468: Mar 21st 2017 at 11:44:05 PM

Eh, Garrett is great but not as great, you know what I mean? Like, he was charismatic and fun, but he just felt kinda flat outside of his sanity slippage and descent into complete psychopathic lunacy (which was fun to watch admittedly, him ripping out a guy's rib and stabbing him with it was both disturbing and fun). Meanwhile you had Ward's treachery and general fucked-upness (plus being one of the best deconstructions of the stereotypical anti-hero and redemption arc), Reyna and her manipulative and mysterious behavior that just kinda kept you guessing about her, Calvin and Jiaying both having their own moral complexities and attachments towards Daisy that made them feel multi-layered, Hive and his sheer charisma and the paranoia he inflicted on SHIELD, and Radcliffe and Aida's own moral twists and turns with the Darkhold, the LMD's, and the Framework. I'd place Garrett above probably Whitehall (dark and disturbing but not really that developed), Lash (I liked the twist with him but ultimately he's wasted in a stupid fashion), and Eli Morrow (nice character but he didn't get enough time to shine).

Fisk is one of my favorites too, but I think what's keeping him from the top spot for me is that he's not the kind of person I'd run into in real life. Kilgrave is. Kilgrave kind of hit a bit personally to me, if I'm gonna be honest. He reminded me of a particular asshole I was friends with for about two years who always made excuses for his abusive behavior towards me. Fisk is great but he's just one character, albeit one with traits that I empathize with or am terrified of. He doesn't remind me of anybody I would know. Kilgrave, meanwhile, is the personification of abusive people everywhere, and it hits a chord with me because I've met people like that. You go one minute from loving them to wanting to vomit at the sight of them the next, and you're terrified of leaving them. You'd do whatever they told you to do because you place trust in them, only to see that trust eroded by their actions.

edited 21st Mar '17 11:44:27 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#67469: Mar 21st 2017 at 11:49:57 PM

I suppose that's fair, though I'd also argue Fisk being the kind of person you don't run into real life very often is part of the point. He represents the wealthy elite, the man who make society spin. In the first season of DD in specific his entire deal was operating from the shadows, and in the second he seems to be trying to gear up the same scheme again. So not meeting him is part of the point.

The Fisks of our world do exist and are plentiful, but they hide their existence under the invisible hand of market and whatnot.

The Madam Gaos of our world however are that old lady you help with the groceries. You know she's up to some shit.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#67470: Mar 21st 2017 at 11:53:02 PM

I'm intending on judging Gao a bit more when I see her in Iron Fist, but I do agree she's a good character.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#67471: Mar 21st 2017 at 11:54:13 PM

Speaking of Madame Gao, the Iron Fist revelation that she's a major Hand leader casts her role in Daredevil's first season in an odd light.

Like, did Nobu know she was his superior and he was just there to back her up? Or was her identity a secret even to him and as far as he knew she was just some little old heroin supplier?

edited 21st Mar '17 11:57:31 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67472: Mar 22nd 2017 at 2:14:18 AM

[up] I think they handled that question fairly well. Though I am still unsure about Gao's true motivations in all this.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#67474: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:40:06 AM

In addition to his personality, I love Kilgrave's powerset too. It's so simple, yet so creative. It's basic yet pervasive. Easy to understand, hard as f*ck to counter, and a constant terror.

Like, any moment you could turn a corner, run into Kilgrave, and then you're just f*cked. There's no running from him. No fighting him. He's omnipotent but only on a strictly personal level. The highest tier of street-level threats without ever throwing a punch.

EDIT: Which also works amazingly well with the fantastic metaphor he embodies, because to a victim, that is exactly what a rapist feels like.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:42:39 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#67475: Mar 22nd 2017 at 9:19:47 AM

I mean, Punisher could deal with him in two seconds.

My various fanfics.

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