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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67276: Mar 18th 2017 at 12:29:05 PM

I am on my second Iron Fist watch (I now switched to English), and I can't disagree more when it comes to the acting abilities of Finn Jones. He was okay with the German dubbing, but boy does he know how to emote and put a whole myriad of feelings into one word.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#67277: Mar 18th 2017 at 2:17:46 PM

I just finished episode 6. I can see what they mean with the pacing; there's not much fighting and what little there is isn't all that exciting.

After the episode 6 opening showed off those badass martial artists I was hoping they'd each be a really interesting fight, but they were basically the television equivalent of unimportant minibosses. Especially the dude who was introduced singing "Take On Me" while killing a horde of people, who got punked by Danny without much fanfare. The fights just feel like less interesting versions of Daredevil's fights. As an action enthusiast who is mostly here for the fights, that's a disappointment, especially since there was a lot of potential with Iron Fist's powerset.

I'm actually liking the corporate intrigue aspect, though, and I think Finn Jones' acting is decent enough. Also Madame Gao is awesome as always. Hopefully the back half of the season picks up in quality. It's good but it's the weakest of the shows so far for me.

edited 18th Mar '17 2:18:41 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#67278: Mar 18th 2017 at 3:34:05 PM

[up] How does it compare to the other Marvel Netflix shows in terms of "makes the viewers feel dead inside"?

Also, anyone have any theories as to why Sony would think making Venom separate from the MCU is a great idea? Because it almost seems like they have little faith that Spider-Man: Homecoming is going to turn out well...

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#67279: Mar 18th 2017 at 3:36:19 PM

I would say IF is nowhere near as pessimistic and grim as LC, DD, and JJ. It's fairly light-hearted, despite the violence.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67280: Mar 18th 2017 at 3:36:43 PM

[up][up] Honestly, I think the project mostly exists to keep some Spider-man obsessed people at Sony from Marvel's back so that they can do their work in peace. At least I hope so.....

[up] Yeah, I agree, Iron Fist is a little bit light-hearted which is part of the reasons why I like it better. I mean, Daredevil's message was pretty much: There are a lot of good people in the world, but they end up dead because there are also so many shitty people. Jessica Jones message was pretty much: The world is shitty, people are shitty, deal with it. Luke Cage's message went: Everyone betrays everyone eventually, you only can take this live step by step. But Iron Fist goes more: Every problem has more than one side to it and there will be a lot of people who will use and betray you, but there are also a lot of people who do want a better world and fight for it. There are no absolute answers and no easy solutions, but there are ideals you can and should follow.

edited 18th Mar '17 3:40:28 PM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67281: Mar 18th 2017 at 4:09:28 PM

Also, anyone have any theories as to why Sony would think making Venom separate from the MCU is a great idea? Because it almost seems like they have little faith that Spider-Man: Homecoming is going to turn out well...

I doubt that. As was said, Spider-Man is still theirs, and they still want it to be a big franchise, hence them also doing the animated Miles Morales movie next year.

Sony isn't like marvel where if they want to diversify their superhero offerings, they can just go make something offbeat like Guardians of the Galaxy. They're pretty much limited to Spider-Man characters, and Venom is a popular character who has proven he can work as a solo property in the past.

edited 18th Mar '17 4:10:42 PM by comicwriter

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#67282: Mar 18th 2017 at 4:26:25 PM

Well, they could always create new superhero characters original to their movies, rather than basing them off a comic book.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67283: Mar 18th 2017 at 4:38:07 PM

Well, of course. But they paid all that money for the Spider-Man IP all those years ago and they'll be damned if they don't get some serious use out of it, hence the incredibly ill-advised Sinister Six movie that was in the works for a while.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#67284: Mar 18th 2017 at 5:16:04 PM

The only Venom I'm particularly interested in seeing at this point is Agent Venom.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#67285: Mar 18th 2017 at 5:24:28 PM

The Topher Grace version of Venom soured me on the character, so but I honestly don't care either way about him appearing or not.

I do really want to see Carnage in live action, though.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67286: Mar 18th 2017 at 5:38:29 PM

Sony would be better of to do a Spidergwen movie....

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#67287: Mar 18th 2017 at 5:43:17 PM

That would be awesome. It wouldn't be hard to set up... just five minutes for a "What if..." intro to establish that this is an alternate universe, then run with it.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67288: Mar 18th 2017 at 5:52:07 PM

Only if they got Emma Stone back.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#67289: Mar 18th 2017 at 6:00:40 PM

Yes, absolutely. I think her popularity in Amazing Spider-Man is the reason Spider-Gwen exists.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#67290: Mar 18th 2017 at 6:16:06 PM

That would be a great idea, actually. It would let them have their cake and eat it with their deal with Marvel. By establishing that Gwen's universe is a parallel world, it would sort of introduce the parallel Earths concept to the MCU AND it would mean they can have their own Spider-universe with their own versions of the characters they're sharing with the MCU.

Want to do a movie with the Scorpion but the MCU already used the Scorpion? That's fine! This is GWEN'S Scorpion!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#67291: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:40:40 PM

Yeah, I agree, Iron Fist is a little bit light-hearted which is part of the reasons why I like it better. I mean, Daredevil's message was pretty much: There are a lot of good people in the world, but they end up dead because there are also so many shitty people. Jessica Jones message was pretty much: The world is shitty, people are shitty, deal with it. Luke Cage's message went: Everyone betrays everyone eventually, you only can take this live step by step. But Iron Fist goes more: Every problem has more than one side to it and there will be a lot of people who will use and betray you, but there are also a lot of people who do want a better world and fight for it. There are no absolute answers and no easy solutions, but there are ideals you can and should follow.

IF sounds like a much-needed breath of fresh air compared to the other Marvel Netflix shows. [tup]

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#67292: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:41:39 PM

How does it compare to the other Marvel Netflix shows in terms of "makes the viewers feel dead inside"?

I'm already dead inside so I can't really provide a fair answer.

Also I haven't actually finished it yet.

edited 18th Mar '17 8:45:39 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#67293: Mar 19th 2017 at 2:58:32 AM

[up][up] Oh, I am actually looking forward to see Danny interact with the other heroes. There is no doubt that the writers knew they needed a counterpoint, because they actually put the fact that Danny is a little bit different than them in text.

There are two things Iron Fist did absolutely right. This one and they actually managed to make the Hand interesting - finally. If there is something the show has on Daredevil, it is that. Which gives me a lot of hope for the Defenders.

PincerMove Since: Feb, 2017
#67294: Mar 19th 2017 at 3:01:49 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up][up]They were trying to. That was one of the early drafts of Amazing Spider-Man 2, and I think a lot of why that movie fails is that it was cut. I mean, without Spider-Gwen, the whole subway car thing is rendered completely pointless, when obviously it was there so Peter could use his fathers research to Synthesize a stabilizing agent to give her his powers to help her heal after the fall breaks her spine but doesn't kill her. T Hen the pair of them take down Rhino. But when Columbia got a new head, that stuff got cut hard.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67295: Mar 19th 2017 at 6:20:49 AM

I don't think that's true. For one, the movie predates the creation of Spider-Gwen. The other is that they always intended to kill off Gwen, which is what Emma Stone said helped draw her to the project in the first place. She thought killing a major character was a bold move you don't see in superhero movies often.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#67296: Mar 19th 2017 at 6:22:09 AM

IIRC, she actually had them put it in her contract that they had to kill her. She really wanted Gwen to die like she does in the comics.

edited 19th Mar '17 6:22:40 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#67297: Mar 19th 2017 at 6:29:39 AM

The wire-crossing here may be due to the fact that there was a Spider-Gwen like character planned, just not for this movie. One of the spin-offs Sony wanted to do after Amazing Spider-Man 2 was an all-female team movie led by Silver Sable, and the other lead in the film was going to be an alternate universe version of Gwen Stacy who had spider-powers.

But that was thought up after Gwen was dead, because pretty much everyone at Sony realized getting rid of Emma was a huge mistake, and they were all trying to find ways to bring her back. That's why some of the pitches for the third movie included a serum that could resurrect the dead and Gwen coming back as Carnage. Having Emma play an alternate universe version of Gwen was seen as a cheat that would allow the franchise's most popular female character to come back without having to immediately walk back her death.

edited 19th Mar '17 6:30:46 AM by comicwriter

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#67299: Mar 19th 2017 at 9:38:18 AM

Gwen coming back as Carnage.

...What.

I recall reading about that serum part, but this is the first time I heard of Gwen being revived as Carnage of all things.

Bah, Sony's useless...

EDIT: The whole "Emma Stone wanting Gwen to be Deader than Dead" thing, I mean I love the actress and all, but I can't stop thinking of how unsettling it seems to want your character to stay super-dead.

Maybe Emma was Genre Savvy enough to know about Sony's ulterior motives for her as Gwen and was all "like hell those monkeys will have me play the same character for god knows how many movies!"?

edited 19th Mar '17 9:47:32 AM by TargetmasterJoe

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'

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