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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#66876: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:13:29 PM

I guess even I don't really see the Unfortunate Implications, I can see why other people might see them.

edited 8th Mar '17 4:14:16 PM by FoxBoxKid

Make mine Marvel.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#66877: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:15:05 PM

But Danny lived in K'un-Lun since he was child, so how is it "someone else's" culture?
Even though he was raised there, it still isn't his culture. Culture is more than where you live, it's where you came from and where your family came from, it's tradition and religion and so on.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66878: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:16:21 PM

To clarify, based on the reviews and the ratings we are at something of a 6 to 6,5 out of 10 average. That is...well, average. Reading the last two sites of post here you could get the impression that the six episodes were critically panned on a Fant4stic level.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#66879: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:19:23 PM

But Danny lived in K'un-Lun since he was child, so how is it "someone else's" culture?
Even though he was raised there, it still isn't his culture. Culture is more than where you live, it's where you came from and where your family came from, it's tradition and religion and so on.

Culture must by necessity take all those things into account, but saying you can never adopt another culture as your own even if you were raised in it almost exclusively runs up against unfortunate implications of its own. It's complicated— you have to take these things case by case.

edited 8th Mar '17 4:20:05 PM by Unsung

FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#66880: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:20:16 PM

Pretty much sums up my feelings about Thor: Ragnarok.

edited 8th Mar '17 4:20:28 PM by FoxBoxKid

Make mine Marvel.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#66881: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:38:07 PM

Culture must by necessity take all those things into account, but saying you can never adopt another culture as your own even if you were raised in it almost exclusively runs up against unfortunate implications of its own. It's complicated— you have to take these things case by case.

It is possible to write a believable story of "a white person proficient in a culture different than his own race", but it's been used so many times for the purpose of "we were too lazy to cast a non-white lead". Each one demands to be taken case by case, but when there are so many cases it becomes hard to not see any sort of correlation.

If the Mighty Whitey is the exception of the culture and not the rule, then for every film of a white guy who masters a foreign discipline, there should be a dozen films of a native resident mastering said discipline. But instead we keep getting story after story of only the exceptions, and so they become the new rule.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#66882: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:48:09 PM

[up][up]Maybe we should stick to talking about that.

I still want a Darryl cameo in the film proper.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#66883: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:50:22 PM

[up][up]Oh, I'm not defending the casting choice here. It's just that in the current climate I think it's important to be able to say that it's still possible for, say, immigrants to join in the culture of a country. Cultures are fluid, they're large and they're small, and they're interconnected, feeding off of each other in all kinds of ways. Most people can be and probably are part of more than one culture, at least in the modern world.

The problem with Iron Fist is how unironically anachronistic it seems to be. Like, it really does seem like they're going for a '90s era kung fu boom action movie throwback, which could work, but all the preview material I've seen shows a certain lack of self-awareness, or at least an inability to land the joke. Like if they're winking at their audience with this, I'm not really seeing it. and If they're being reverent to their influences, I'm not really getting that, either. The trailers are...competent, but in a generic way.

[up]I am in fact looking forward to Thor, which I couldn't say about Thor before (bethore).

Chris Hemsworth's head looks really skinny without his golden Thor mane.

edited 8th Mar '17 4:55:29 PM by Unsung

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#66884: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:51:06 PM

[up][up][up]Essentially, stories don't exist outside of a wider cultural context and media landscape, so it's important to evaluate them as such. Watching something for pure escapism is fine sometimes, but it's TVTropes so of course we're going to overanalyze the hell out of everything.

edited 8th Mar '17 4:51:44 PM by Pseudopartition

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#66885: Mar 8th 2017 at 5:01:08 PM

I think the short hair look suits Chris Hemsworth better anyway, though I hear wigs were to blame for him looking less than stellar in the earlier films.

Also Cate Blanchett looks really hot in those set photos. So, uh, now I have another reason to get excited.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66886: Mar 8th 2017 at 5:26:58 PM

I'm actually really excited for Ragnarok. It really seems like it'll be fun. Also, Valkyrie looks awesome.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#66887: Mar 8th 2017 at 5:30:42 PM

Not sure if I'm feeling short-haired Thor, to be honest, but otherwise I'm fairly hyped. Could probably use a trailer, though.

Oh God! Natural light!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#66888: Mar 8th 2017 at 5:35:35 PM

Yeah. That's the one minor quibble I have. The pictures give that perfect combination of stupid and awesome- kind of like the costumes in Spider-Man Homecoming. My first thought and I think one I still hold is that everyone looks like they are at some kind of unusual (possibly bondage-themed) club.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#66889: Mar 8th 2017 at 5:42:07 PM

[up]wild mass guessThat's the style on Planet Hulk/Warworld/Wherever.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#66891: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:00:47 PM

Is That What Theyre Calling It Now

Sorry. But also, not sorry.

PincerMove Since: Feb, 2017
#66892: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:03:40 PM

You know, don't get me wrong, getting more diversity of characters, especially a black woman, in the MCU is great and all, but, why did they need to give Thor a love interest again? This would have been the first MCU movie to not need to force in a poorly handled romantic subplot, and instead they felt the need to have Chris Hemsworth make out with someone again. Just make Valkyrie a capable female fighter on the level of Thor and a friend of his who doesn't feel the need to get into his pants. Natalie Portman and Gwenyth Parltrow hating these movies and wanting to leave gave them an opportunity to reevaluate if aspects of the movies are needed, and instead they're sticking hard to the formula.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66893: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:16:13 PM

Did Winter Soldier have a romantic subplot?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#66894: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:18:53 PM

[up]There were some jokes about Black Widow wanting to set up Cap with a girl and random flirting which was supposed to show him adjusting to his environment but not an actual subplot.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#66895: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:19:44 PM

Wasn't there an article postulating that Sam Wilson essentially served the standard love interest role in that film?

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#66896: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:22:54 PM

[up]That's a load. That's a sidekick recruitment, not a love interest.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#66897: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:26:50 PM

@Pincer Move: Black characters, but especially characters that are black women are still rarely given the chance to be portrayed as love interests. It's become more and more common to see on tv in recent years, but it's not as common in blockbuster movies yet, so if Valkyrie does in fact turn out to be a love interest of Thor's in addition to being the capable warrior she is, then I think it's a very good thing.

Of course, the execution of it could very well be awful, so who knows?

edited 8th Mar '17 7:31:16 PM by higherbrainpattern

PincerMove Since: Feb, 2017
#66898: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:31:21 PM

Wait, what? The next 4 MCU movies all have a black love interest. Zoe Saldana, Zendaya, Tessa Thompson and Lupita Nyong'o

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66899: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:32:36 PM

The entertainment industry is a lot bigger than four movies that aren't out yet.

(I'd also be hesitant to count Gamora because she's not black in the film, she's green.)

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#66900: Mar 8th 2017 at 7:33:58 PM

Zoe Saldana shouldn't count because she's not playing a black character.

Do we know if the Lupita and Zendaya are the love interests in their movies?

edited 8th Mar '17 7:34:08 PM by Kostya


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