TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66851: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:33:59 PM

Ant-Man's reaction was more along the lines of "Hey, this actually didn't suck". A resounding "meh, that was better than I expected", if you will.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:34:36 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#66852: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:36:01 PM

I don't think people thought it would suck outside of the Edgar Wright fanboys. People just weren't excited for it.

Still, this is a different situation. Ant-Man got generally good reviews. Iron Fist is getting savaged. Even if the criticisms are overblown I find it hard to believe it rises above mediocre.

edit: I guess in a way it's slightly better if Iron Fist didn't cast an Asian man. If they did and it bombed some idiot could try to blame that for it failing.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:37:16 PM by Kostya

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66853: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:38:18 PM

Ant-Man is a movie that I more or less enjoyed as I watched it, then immediately forgot about the moment it was over. It just didn't stay with me at all. It's most lasting impression was the sense of lasting annoyance it gave me over its treatment of Hope.

But yeah, some of the reviews have criticized the show's racism and cultural misappropriation, but even the ones that did had plenty of other serious criticisms. A lot of which were the sort that it's not likely the show will suddenly shake seven episodes deep. Pacing can pick up - but awful acting, cringeworthy dialogue, and bad action choreography typically aren't the kind of thing that go away in the middle of a season.

(Also, the Agents of Shield comparison isn't working for me personally, because I didn't find it improved much even after The Reveal. But that's just a personal one.)

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66854: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:42:14 PM

It gets better in Seasons 2, 3, and 4, trust me!

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#66855: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:42:38 PM

Wait hold on, let me clarify something: Are the reviews saying that he's bad because he's white in addition to other stuff or are they saying that he's bad for other reasons and he's white?

This song needs more love.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#66856: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:43:28 PM

I don't think AOS really hit its stride until a few episodes into season 2. The latter half of season 1 was a step up from the first part but it still wasn't outsanding.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66857: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:44:56 PM

[up][up]They're just saying his acting and fighting choreography is bad, and he's white. No review tried to say that he was bad because he's white.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:46:04 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66858: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:46:14 PM

And a bunch of them are also complaining that they do nothing to address the Mighty Whitey problems, leading to a lot of Unfortunate Implications.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#66859: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:49:18 PM

[up][up]Okay alright then. I mean, I was upset that he wasn't Asian as much as the next guy but if it's bad, it's bad. An Asian actor would not have automatically fixed that.

[up]Okay, that does sound annoying.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:49:43 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66860: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:50:08 PM

[up][up] Yeah, basically. Actually, IIRC, no review I read really complained about the fact that a white man is playing Danny Rand (I mean, that's kind of old news at this point, so why would they?), but they did talk about how there was not even a slight attempt at addressing the Unfortunate Implications of Danny's Mighty Whitey-ness.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:50:22 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66861: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:51:06 PM

There's also the fact that for all we know, a different actor would have just given a better performance and had superior chemistry with the other actors. Leading to a better show.

If nothing else, we can be pretty confident that the action scenes would be better if they had cast Lewis Tan. Because Lewis Tan doesn't need a stunt double.

[up] Which is especially egregious because of all the promises they made about how that aspect of the character will be totally addressed and handled in a very satisfying manner. Jones made that promise just a few days ago.

Is it too late? No, but the fact that there is apparently nothing hinting at it within six entire episodes doesn't bode well.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:52:27 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#66862: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:00:10 PM

As I feared Finn Jones was simply miscast for the role. I could be persuaded into accepting another white actor in the role (using Truer to the Text as justification) if he had the chops and fighting skill for the role, but it seemed pretty clear to me Jones was just not the right man for the job based on his previous roles.

edited 8th Mar '17 3:01:52 PM by AlleyOop

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#66863: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:02:34 PM

Why was he cast anyway? He wasn't overly impressive in Game of Thrones either so it's not like he's some star actor that turned in a disappointing performance.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#66864: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:11:18 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why they though Scott Buck would make a good showrunner. Weren't his seasons of Dexter universally panned? (also, the first suggestion I heard for Iron Fist was Osric Chau, who I think would have made a good contrast to Coulter)

I'll probably watch it once I finish Luke Cage, because Claire and Colleen are there. Meh.

edited 8th Mar '17 3:12:25 PM by Pseudopartition

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#66865: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:19:39 PM

[up][up] Marvel is usually very on point with its casting. This is probably the first WTH, Casting Agency? that actually backfired quality-wise. Thing is, he doesn't even really look like Danny either. I expected someone more like Chris Hemsworth or Josh Holloway but thinner.

[up]The arguments I've heard is that he was just the fall guy for a lot of Executive Meddling from above, but I've also heard otherwise and that the faults were because of his own directorial choices.

edited 8th Mar '17 3:22:20 PM by AlleyOop

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#66866: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:39:08 PM

When Inhumans comes out, we can compare the two shows. Because, honestly, from his record, it looks like he's a good writer, but not as much a good showrunner. But then again, we don't know who else is writing for the show.

[up] A showrunner is not a director. If you look at the list of Iron Fist episodes, you can see the directors for almost each one. From the reviews I've read, I heard RZA's episode (episode six) is probably the best direction-wise, but I really want to see Kevin Tancharoen's episode, since he directed awesome fight scenes in AOS. (I was actually hoping that he would be the showrunner, since he made Mortal Kombat: Legacy, which was awesome.)

edited 8th Mar '17 3:41:07 PM by alliterator

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66867: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:53:36 PM

Huh, I guess it makes sense that the RZA would direct an episode. Wu-Tang Clan make no bones about their love of martial arts films.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#66868: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:56:23 PM

What really bugs me about this whole Mighty Whitey "controversy" is people accusing the character of Unfortunate Implications because, essentially, he doesn't have the ideal skin color.

edited 8th Mar '17 3:56:31 PM by FoxBoxKid

Make mine Marvel.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66869: Mar 8th 2017 at 3:57:59 PM

Are you trying to say that we're somehow the real racists in all of this?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66870: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:00:28 PM

Perhaps Jones gave a good audition and they thought with enough prep time and training, he'd be able to make up for his lack of martial arts experience.

No idea why they thought Buck would be a good choice. Maybe he gave them a really good pitch and just stumbled in execution?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#66871: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:03:20 PM

What really bugs me about this whole Mighty Whitey "controversy" is people accusing the character of Unfortunate Implications because, essentially, he doesn't have the ideal skin color.
Okay, I'm going to try and explain this using an example I used elsewhere.

Let’s look at it a different way:

Say someone (a white person) is writing a story. Their story is about a Rap Competition. This Rap Competition is made up of 99 black people and 1 white dude. That white dude not only wins the Rap Competition, but the rest of the 99 black people all agree that he is the Best Rapper and is appointed the Next Tupac.

Now, even though white people can certainly be good rappers (even great rappers), that whole story sure sounds racist, doesn’t it? That’s because it is. Because it’s a fictional story being written by a white guy.

Real people can do whatever they want to do, because reality has no bias. In fictional stories, however, you have to be careful about portraying a white person has inherently better at a someone else's culture because, hey, yes, that's pretty racist.

edited 8th Mar '17 4:04:15 PM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66872: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:05:41 PM

Mighty Whitey as a trope also has a lot of not great history behind it

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#66873: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:07:35 PM

But Danny lived in K'un-Lun since he was child, so how is it "someone else's" culture?

Make mine Marvel.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66874: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:09:44 PM

I am a little bit puzzled....reading the reviews I got more a "eh, it has problems" vibe, with one or two exceptions, but those actually are reviews which focus on the mighty white aspects. And, as I said, some of the things which were criticised in the reviews were actually aspects I was hoping for.

Mind you, I don't have much of an opinion about the casting, or the show runner or anything else except, "well, let's wait and see what the result is". You know, the result I still haven't seen. The result not even the reviewers have actually seen, because they only got to see not even half of the show.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66875: Mar 8th 2017 at 4:11:31 PM

He's a white guy who doesn't have a long cultural tie to the area and was trained to out kung-fu the kung-fu experts.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

Total posts: 186,763
Top