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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66826: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:13:39 PM

[up][up]

I do hope there'll be some merit in the second half that might save at least some of it for me, I'll give it at least that tiny benefit of the doubt.

Also, when does Defenders come out?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#66827: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:21:02 PM

Reviews don't fill me with confidence, but then again I've typically never went along with reviewer opinion.

If it turns out to be good, or at least appeal to me, then hey, no problem. If it turns out to be mediocre, then well, at least I had something semi-decent to watch on TV for several hours and can hope they make it better for Defenders or season two.

Not sure I understand the logic in actively enjoying the fact that it got bad reviews, though. Wouldn't you prefer the show turn out to be unexpectedly good rather than meet your low expectations?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#66828: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:23:32 PM

[up]Judging by the reactions to said negative reviews, people think this will justify their demands for more minority actors (hence the constant demands that Danny Rand be Asian) when more often than not, that's not how casting works, unlike with women and minorities.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#66829: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:33:13 PM

One of the things I keep seeing consistently in the Iron Fist reviews is that Finn Jones has absolutely no experience in martial arts and it shows. Like, it's really, really apparent and makes the fight scenes really terrible.

edited 8th Mar '17 1:35:45 PM by higherbrainpattern

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66830: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:37:50 PM

Marvel usually goes for who actually suits the part better, as opposed to who has the physicality for the parts, which normally works out in their favor. This was a point raised by Paul Bettany when Jason Statham criticized the movies by saying you can tell it's stunt men doing most of the action (Bettany replied by asking if Jason can get an acting double then).

In this case though, when the whole premise behind the character is that he's supposed to be an amazing martial artist, it may have bit them in the ass.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66831: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:38:13 PM

That is the thing....what the reviews are describing as the downside of the show actually sounds appealing to me. I wanted Danny Rand to be naïve and perhaps annoyingly optimistic...I didn't WANT another broader, we already have three of those in the Defenders. I also was afraid that they would put too much emphasis on the fight scenes so again, hearing that there aren't that many overall makes me happy. If the reason is an exposition dumb, well, that would be unfortunate, but I have to see how it is handled and what the eventual pay-off for all the set-up is.

At the end of the day, we are not talking about a movie but a Netflix show. If it were a movie, I would most likely say "okay, let's wait a little bit until more reviews are in and what the fans say and then look if I put this on my "have to watch", "watch if I have the opportunity" or "eh, can wait until I get it elsewhere" list. But this is a Netflix show. It only costs my time. Which I will invest anyway because there is no way that I jump into the Defenders without having seen everything which leads up to it. And there is no way that I miss out on the Defenders, because I want to see more of Jessica. So in a way the reviews are kind of mood for me.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#66832: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:40:50 PM

[up] Also, every review I'm reading says how great Colleen Wing is, so I'm going to watch the show if only for her. io9's review said it was Marvel's first failure, but also:

The clear treasure of Iron Fist so far, however, is Jessica Henwick’s Colleen Wing—Danny’s future partner in his mission to take out the Hand—even when the series consistently trips her up to remind us that Danny is a Very Special White Male Protagonist. Where Danny is portrayed as equal parts naive, idiotic, and unsure of just who he should be at any point in time (other than infuriatingly annoying, it seems), Colleen is assured and focused, and faces relatable problems that are far more intriguing to watch her deal with than anything Danny ever does. Six episodes in, I’m already longing for Colleen to be the actual hero of Iron Fist, and if she and Simone Missick never get to team up in their own spinoff Daughters of the Dragon series after this, then that might just be Iron Fist’s greatest crime of all.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66833: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:47:49 PM

I am so excited for Colleen for similar reasons. The reviews all had wonderful things to say about her. She seems like she will be awesome.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66834: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:50:08 PM

So she is the Ryan Reynolds' Wade Wilson of this X-Men Origins: Wolverine, it sounds like. tongue

edited 8th Mar '17 1:50:36 PM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66835: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:50:36 PM

That is another thing: Even if Iron Fist ends up being the first "failure" on Netflix, they have nothing to loose. They can just fold Iron Fist into Luke Cage and be done with it. Or they can use whatever element did work and use that (for example for a Daughters of the Dragon season).

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#66836: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:51:35 PM

Yessss. Give me a Daughters of the Dragon mini-series. Doooo it.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#66837: Mar 8th 2017 at 1:53:22 PM

[up]Heroes for Hire and Daughters of the Dragon could be a lot of fun, especially to tie in to Defenders Season 2.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66838: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:02:03 PM

The silver lining here is from now on nobody can accuse Disney of bribing the critics.tongue

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66839: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:02:22 PM

A Daughters of the Dragon series would be so awesome, holy crap!

[up] Haha, true.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:02:44 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#66840: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:07:01 PM

No, just the opposite. I've seen topics wondering if critics are being bribed to thrash Iron Fist.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#66841: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:08:41 PM

Why would they do that?

edited 8th Mar '17 2:24:08 PM by Kostya

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#66842: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:12:16 PM

[up]Because if someone disagrees with you, they're being coerced somehow.

And I desperately want the second half of the series to be better. Man cannot live on the Samurai Jack sequel alone.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#66843: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:12:44 PM

... Just going to second everything Unsung said last page, though I might skip this one altogether if my schedule's heavy since it pretty low on the backburner anyway.

But yeah, looking even more forward to a possible Daughters of the Dragon since Misty ended up stealing the show for me in Luke Cage and that's where the demand likely is.

edited 8th Mar '17 2:14:26 PM by AlleyOop

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#66844: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:12:46 PM

Mostly because they think critics are letting their opinions of the lead's casting affect their judgement. And that's the nicest way I can put it.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#66845: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:24:05 PM

I doubt it, because speaking as someone who is Chinese American and annoyed by the casting but did not consider it a dealbreaker I already found the preview trailer pretty underwhelming, the show's ostensible high concept lacking in substance compared to the last three, and was aware of the general doubt about Scott Buck and Finn Jones' general ability given their previous resumes. It had a lot stacked against it without taking the race thing into account.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#66846: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:26:41 PM

Well if Iron Fist bombs it shouldn't be that hard to just fold him into Luke Cage. I just hope he doesn't drag down Luke Cage or the Defenders.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66847: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:31:02 PM

Same was true about Ant-man, though. Lot of bad buzz, but the end result wasn't as bad as the Edgar Wright bemoaners like to claim. Then there is Ao S, which did start underwhelming, but was so worth sticking around for the pay-off.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#66848: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:32:53 PM

Unless I'm misremembering the Ant-Man thing was overblown and not supported by any actual reviews. Iron Fist is getting a lot of bad press from legit review outlets. While it is possible that the series turns around halfway through it doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66849: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:33:05 PM

Honestly, a lot of the reviews I've read did address the race/Mighty Whitey controversy, but they had other negatives too. It wasn't like they spent the whole review frothing about the casting of Finn Jones. The reviews all seemed to be along the lines of, even putting the whole racial iffiness aside, the plot, the acting, the martial arts, and the dialogue were just plain bad. Again, though, this is just for the first six episodes. It might pick up in the second half. But yeah, that's my take on the reviews.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66850: Mar 8th 2017 at 2:33:51 PM

There was a lot of bad buzz during production, but the actual reviews were mostly fine. It wasn't anything to do with the lack of quality of the movie, just a lot of negative press because of the falling out between Edgar Wright and Marvel.


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