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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66501: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:22:29 PM

Do you similarly object to the casting of Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One, then?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#66502: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:22:32 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66503: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:23:38 PM

I don't see what's the big deal. It's racelifting characters because they're majority white so that it can actually be diverse, what's the problem?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66504: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:26:35 PM

There is no problem. White people already have more representation than they need, people of color have less. A little redistribution is in order, simple as that.

Also, isn't it curious how the same people who rail against racebending are, 90% of the time, the same people who defend whitewashing?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#66505: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:28:07 PM

You won, because if I said anything against The race Lift, it means that I am a racist.

Goodbye.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:29:55 PM by dantecito

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66506: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:29:55 PM

You know that rage quitting threads is against site policy, right?

Either way, the whole "Racelifting is an artificial way to add representation" argument is total bupkiss.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#66507: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:33:47 PM

What do you expect me to do? I can not give arguments, without being treated as racist.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:34:43 PM by dantecito

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#66508: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:33:50 PM

Look, here's all you have to be willing to say: I would rather Enchantress and Valkyrie were blonde because that's how I was introduced to the characters and that's how I imagine them. That's valid— so long as you can also be okay with them being something else, and understand why it's not much of a difference percentage-wise if they're blonde Scandinavians, but it's actually a noticeable uptick in representation if they're otherwise.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66509: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:35:59 PM

If asking you "how do you feel about the Ancient One" translates to you as "me calling you a giant racist," then the problem's probably on your end? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#66510: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:37:28 PM

The Race Lift has always caused a Broken Base, and I am belong to the half that don´t like.

Frankly it does not matter in the case of the Ancient One, because the Ancient One is more a title than a character.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:39:31 PM by dantecito

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66511: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:38:10 PM

And we can criticize your reasoning for it. We're not calling you a racist, quit putting words into our mouths.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#66512: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:39:01 PM

The face looks terrible (it looks too masculine even for Carol and doesn't look like Brie Larson at all) and the boots have WAY too many strap but overall good concept art.

I don't mind the outfit, I mean, I rather like it even.

But I just want them to stay away from that mohawk/whatever it was they had going on. I hated the way she looked back when they first redesigned her.

Also, isn't it curious how the same people who rail against racebending are, 90% of the time, the same people who defend whitewashing?

It's weird, I like Spider-Miles and Captain Falconamerica.

I can't stand Jane-Thor or Ironheart.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:42:32 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66513: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:39:30 PM

I belong to the half that does, when it's utilized to provide greater representation to underrepresented people. And I think the "it's too artificial" argument is deeply flawed at best.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66514: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:41:51 PM

Okay, so you're fine with the Ancient One because for the purposes of the movie, they changed canon to make it a title rather than a specific person.

How about in Thor: Ragnarok, they make it so that "Valkyrie" is a title rather than specific person? There have always been more than one Valkyrie in Norse mythology, after all.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#66515: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:48:40 PM

Valkyrie doesn,t matter, I am speaking of the Amora the Enchantress.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:49:24 PM by dantecito

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66516: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:50:42 PM

[up][up][up][up]

I mean, that's fair enough, if you don't like the characters. I don't read comics so I don't know how they've been handled.

[up]

It doesn't matter what skin color Enchantress is, but if she's racelifted to be black, again, who cares? Comic accuracy is already loose in the MCU.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#66517: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:51:11 PM

[up][up]Well, Enchantress is even more clearly a job-title.

And the Ancient One being a job title was AFAIK a handwave created by the movie. Before that it was just the specific, very old Chinese guy.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:51:40 PM by Hodor2

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66518: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:51:55 PM

All right, then let's just copy what Doctor Strange did and make it so that "Amora the Enchantress" is a title rather than a person. Problem solved.

[up] Tibetan, I think. Aside from that you are correct, it was a flimsy Hand Wave invented specifically for the purposes of staving off criticism.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:52:31 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#66519: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:57:01 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66520: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:57:58 PM

If neither matter, then why does it matter if they change her race?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66521: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:58:48 PM

Why go through all this bother of arguing over her race if you don't care for the character?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#66522: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:04:24 PM

Enchantress was only a character that used as an example, you turned this into a discussion.

edited 25th Feb '17 6:10:13 PM by dantecito

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66523: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:07:22 PM

It is enough with the Race Lift of Valkyria, I dont' want a Race Lift for The Enchantress, also.

If your theorie turned be right, then her true form must be a beautiful blonde

Doesn't sound to me like you don't care. You specifically said that you don't want a Race Lift for the Enchantress, and the Valkyrie was already bad enough.

Also, why is it so important that Valkyrie be a "beautiful blonde" rather than a beautiful black woman?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#66524: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:07:39 PM

If you're going to keep saying "Goodbye", you need to actually shut the fuck up. Otherwise it just makes you look like the attention hungry contrarian you are.

My various fanfics.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#66525: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:13:03 PM

Twisting your opponent's words is not a good debate tactic.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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