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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66101: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:45:25 AM

I can take it or leave it but apparently a lot of people really like romance in stuff. A bit inexplicable to me but I suppose its seen as an essential part of the human experience by those a lot of people.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#66102: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:53:51 AM

I imagine it's a vicarious-living-through-character thing. "If the fictional character I like has a cool boyfriend/girlfriend, that means I have a cool boyfriend/girlfriend by extension!"

I guess there's a lot of money in that so I can't really blame them, I just don't have to like it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#66103: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:53:56 AM

It'd be weirder to me if there was no sex/romance at all ever, but it doesn't always need to be some grand, magical thing. I like Luke/Claire because it's casual, rather than some epic 'you are my WORLD' kind of thing. Similarly, I like Jessica/Luke because it's dysfunctional and kind of fucked up in a way that a lot of real-world relationships are. But sex and dating don't have to be a big deal. Like on Daredevil, I think the way the Matt/Elektra/Karen triangle was handled was overblown, stylized in a way that didn't really work with the way the show had been written up to that point. But you could say that about the Hand, too, so I just try not to think about that.

They should've just made a Daredevil/Punisher miniseries, leaving the Hand for Defenders like they originally planned. Those first four episodes are so good.

BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#66104: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:06:25 PM

If anything it seems like in the MCU the Netflix romances have more thought put into them and are less simple than the movie versions.

35 year old white man.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66105: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:08:25 PM

More room to work with. The darker tone means they don't go for undeveloped TRUE LOVE pairings.

Although, mileages have been known to vary on the Agents of Shield and Agent Carter pairings.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66106: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:13:00 PM

With the exception of Jane and Thor (who was just completely mishandled right out the gate), the worst MCU romances have generally been the ones that had absolutely no reason to be there.

I feel Pepper and Tony and Peggy and Steve work because those women were actually fairly important parts of the story and were organically woven into the plot. And even if Incredible Hulk wasn't a great film, Betty still had a legit reason to be there and the movie could rely on the fact that she and Bruce had apparently already been a couple in the past. On the flipside you have Sharon Carter and whatever the hell the name of the woman in Doctor Strange was, where the romance was completely irrelevant to the movie and was clearly just there because it's expected that every superhero movie has to have a man and a woman kiss before the end. Ant-Man was even worse: Hope did have a big role in the plot and the romance still feels tacked on and completely out of nowhere.

edited 31st Jan '17 12:14:01 PM by comicwriter

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66107: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:19:07 PM

I felt the point of Dr Palmer being Strange's ex was so that she could be even more disappointed in him. And blah blah his anchor in the normal world.

Apparently they're no more than friends at any point of the movie though.

My theory regarding Hope is that both of them were just fucking with Old Pym because its fun to push his buttons.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66108: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:27:16 PM

Actually, there was no romance in Doctor Strange. There just was a former relationship which couldn't be revived because Strange first wasted the time he had with Christine and then missed the right moment (see what I did there?).

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#66109: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:36:03 PM

Yeah, Ducktor Strange was a welcome break from the usual Romantic Plot Tumor.

Though it would have been nice if there was more to her character than "Strange's old flame".

edited 31st Jan '17 12:36:24 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#66110: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:50:09 PM

[up] Don't remind me. It's still bug me that Christine didn't have any lines with Mordo, Wong and the Ancient One despite having legit reasons to.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#66111: Jan 31st 2017 at 1:24:13 PM

A problem with Christine was that her big heroic moment tending to Stephens wounds while he is having an astral projection battle is calculated to make her useful rather than actually progressing the story or Stephen's character arc. It is nice there isn't a Token Romance there, but that doesn't make her a very well developed character either.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#66112: Jan 31st 2017 at 1:54:21 PM

Am I the only one who wishes they just wouldn't have romances at all in these? They're always boring and eat up time that could go to more interesting individual character development, real tension, or even just more action scenes.

I do think that a lot of films would be better served cutting out the romance mostly because they don't really put effort into it and it's there mostly as an expectation.

Some of the Netflix shows have done this pretty well with actually interesting relationships that add to the characters and don't feel like a waste of time.

I imagine it's a vicarious-living-through-character thing. "If the fictional character I like has a cool boyfriend/girlfriend, that means I have a cool boyfriend/girlfriend by extension!" I guess there's a lot of money in that so I can't really blame them, I just don't have to like it.

That's probably part of it, but it's a little bit of an oversimplification.

While the overemphasis on romantic relationships in media is pretty terrible, it's still an important part of the palette of the human experience that has as much right to be in certain stories as anything else.

The problem is most writers take that for granted and don't bother making the relationship actually good and it's a difficult thing to get right as it is, and it's not something that needs to be in every story. So most romance regardless of the genre is pretty lackluster and phoned in.

The most compelling relationships I've seen in media tend to be the destructive/unhealthy ones, and those aren't necessarily that easy to work with in the movies proper. Much easier to do it in the netflix shows, which is why some of them have the best-written ones in the MCU so far.

edited 31st Jan '17 1:55:31 PM by Draghinazzo

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66113: Jan 31st 2017 at 2:15:53 PM

It should probably be mentioned that there are indeed a number of people who like romance plots but wouldn't normally go to see superhero films. I can understand why the romances are there, I just wish they were better executed.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#66114: Jan 31st 2017 at 3:58:59 PM

Out of the various franchises only The Incredible Hulk and the Thor series really seem to actually take advantage of that particular Just Here for Godzilla, and well, we know how that turned out.

Meanwhile if romance was ditched completely from the films where they were extraneous the Mad Matchmakers would find a way to create a healthy shipping community from them and watch the movie for their ships anyway, while maybe fans who don't care for superfluous romances would also be more inclined to come. I dunno, that last point is kinda rambling, but the presence of the romance storylines has a strong feeling of "crafted by committee" there.

edited 31st Jan '17 4:02:14 PM by AlleyOop

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66115: Jan 31st 2017 at 5:54:20 PM

I would love it if superhero movies just dropped the romance aspects altogether. Then again, this is coming from someone who really dislikes romantic subplots, so. Well.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#66116: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:07:32 PM

When is Scarlet Witch going to use magic to make herself children so we can have a Young Avengers film?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66117: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:24:42 PM

It's not strictly necessary to do that to get Young Avengers

The fact that Wanda is Billy's soul mom comes up tragically infrequently. I want more moments like from New New New Avengers where she gave him dubious life advice

Also Teddy will be a bit more of a stumbling block

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66118: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:46:37 PM

Contrary to some people in the thread, I'm fine with Claire getting with a member of the Defenders (Luke). In fact, I want Claire to get with all the Defenders! Maybe all at the same time!

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66119: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:51:58 PM

We need to wait for Cassie Lang to be old enough to be a teenager.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#66120: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:55:33 PM

I do like seeing Wanda be cool mom to Wiccan and... The other one. Wow, I did not know I didn't know Wiccan's twin's name.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66121: Jan 31st 2017 at 7:55:04 PM

Speed. Or Tommy Shepherd.

He's barely used so who cares.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#66122: Jan 31st 2017 at 8:03:12 PM

I like she's kinda their mom but also kinda not. :p

35 year old white man.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#66123: Jan 31st 2017 at 8:08:51 PM

Could someone explain to me their exact relation to her?

I know she stole souls from a demon, but those souls were her children already some how?

Did the demon hold souls of potential people?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66124: Jan 31st 2017 at 8:09:14 PM

Point being that Wanda as their maybe mom barely comes up.

Teddy being the hybrid of two warring races and the prophesied king of space comes up a lot more than Wanda does.

Not to mention Iron Lad and the Kang thing.

Kate Bishop and Cassie seem the easiest to set up.

[up]

In the past, Scarlet Witch was so desperate to have children that she used her reality warping powers to create twin sons, unknowingly, from two (of five) scattered fragments of the soul of the demon Mephisto that were previously lost to him in an ill-fated encounter with the powerful mutant child, Franklin Richards. When the boys' souls were reabsorbed into Mephisto, because of the power Wanda put into the soul fragments, they destroyed him and their souls were reincarnated as Thomas Shepherd, the Young Avenger Speed, and Billy.

Whoa-oh-oh, its magic, y'know?

edited 31st Jan '17 8:10:26 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66125: Jan 31st 2017 at 8:19:53 PM

Kate Bishop and Cassie seem the easiest to set up.

Especially if Hawkeye gets killed in Infinity War.tongue


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