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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#66076: Jan 30th 2017 at 6:24:14 PM

So this was discussed on the SHH forums but a while back I remember there was discussion here about Jessica Drew. According to the documents from the Sony leak, it looks like she was indeed another shared rights case.

I wonder if the deal to get Spider-Man into the MCU has made it any easier to get in Jess as well.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66077: Jan 30th 2017 at 8:20:32 PM

At first I went "buh?" But the actual wording of that restriction makes sense.

Basically, Marvel had complete rights to use Jessica Drew: the character. But they couldn't use any of the superficial elements that were reminiscent of Spider-Man. So, the moniker, the costume, what few powers she has that are (explicitly) spider-based, etc.

No Ultimate Jessica Drew, obviously, but why would they have anyway?

This is only a problem in the first place because Jessica was created to snatch up the tangential Spider-Name before someone else did. To this end she has a distaff counterpart name and a costume that looks somewhat similar to Spidey's, but otherwise as a character the two have very little in common, so on the whole this shouldn't have been a problem for Marvel using her unless they really wanted her to suit up.

Presumably Sony could use the costume but not have the character in it be Jessica Drew at all.

edited 30th Jan '17 8:24:14 PM by KnownUnknown

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66078: Jan 30th 2017 at 11:37:14 PM

To be fair, Marvel has gotten better and better when it comes to writing romances in their movies, and on the TV side, they actually did pretty good so far. Ao S had already a number of romantic subplot, but they are rarely the focus and feel more like they add something to a story instead of being the main story. It helps that I like Fitzsimmons and Huntingbird as pairings. And the Netflix show has a very practical approach to romance - overall. The Elektra vs Karen plot in Daredevil Season 2 was god-awful, but Jessica Jones and Luke Cage portray less romances and more relationship, which is way more interesting.

Cloak and Dagger will be a challenge, but I will give them at the very least a chance. And if I can't stand it, well, I don't need to like everything in the MCU.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66079: Jan 31st 2017 at 5:05:09 AM

Yeah, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage did actually do a pretty good job with romance pairings. I actually liked Luke/Claire, and I really wasn't expecting to. Luke/Jess was done well, too, and so was Mariah/Shades. (And in Daredevil's first season, Claire/Matt was done well, too.) I guess I'll give Cloak and Dagger the benefit of the doubt.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#66080: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:21:22 AM

Fun fact about Cloak and Dagger. Only the Ultimate version of them were in a romantic relationship.

35 year old white man.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#66081: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:52:45 AM

Pretty sure I remember the 616 versions dating too.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66082: Jan 31st 2017 at 6:54:04 AM

[up][up]Huh, I did not know that. So I guess they're basing this series off of the Ultimate version?

edited 31st Jan '17 6:54:23 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#66083: Jan 31st 2017 at 7:02:28 AM

MCU-related:

Bob Chipman presents: 7 Muslim Superheroes who belong in the MCU

Interesting Fact: Bob meant to do this in the beginning of May for the Muslim holiday Ramadan, but some certain things involving certain people have convinced him to do it now...

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66084: Jan 31st 2017 at 8:31:48 AM

[up][up] Usually they base their stories on whatever is most popular...in a way the comics have become a giant test balloon for the movies and TV shows. Which is exactly why Kamala Khan will most likely turn up sooner or later.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#66085: Jan 31st 2017 at 9:00:39 AM

Re: romance. I definitely agree about Luke and Jessica—that's without a doubt my favorite romance from the MCU (and possibly the only one I would actually deem to be legitimately well-written).

As for the video, I might actually cross-post that into the Diversity thread, because I feel like there' a lot to unpack there, and I don't want to jam up this thread. But I safely say that "holy shit, why didn't I know about Excalibur until now."

Also, I looked though the first comments and I didn't see anybody being incredibly Islamophobic yet, so I'll chalk that one up to a win.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#66086: Jan 31st 2017 at 9:19:52 AM

I don't like Luke/Jessica in the MCU. There's a lot of baggage there, especially in regards to how Jessica manipulates Luke in a relationship despite being inadvertently responsible for the death of his wife.

Luke/Claire is done much better.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#66087: Jan 31st 2017 at 9:24:56 AM

I think people like Luke/Jessica because it didn't work out.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#66088: Jan 31st 2017 at 9:31:48 AM

[up][up][up]I actually did know about Excalibur. Haven't read any of her comics, but she seems super cool. And I know about Kamala. Shocking, I know. But I didn't know about any of the other heroes listed in the video.

edited 31st Jan '17 9:33:24 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66089: Jan 31st 2017 at 9:39:22 AM

I prefer Luke/Jessica exactly because it is complicated. Not a fan of Luke/Claire. THAT relationship came more or less out of nowhere and honestly, I would have preferred it to stay a friendship.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#66090: Jan 31st 2017 at 9:51:03 AM

It doesn't come out of nowhere— they have similar values, and they're two attractive people spending time with each other. That doesn't guarantee a relationship, but it's not too surprising when it leads to something more than friendship either.

edited 31st Jan '17 9:58:04 AM by Unsung

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#66091: Jan 31st 2017 at 9:56:28 AM

Excalibur does sound awesome. It's true.

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#66092: Jan 31st 2017 at 10:05:55 AM

I want that Excalibur movie / miniseries NOW!

I really think the Netflix shows really need lighter storylines and aesthetic. Doom and gloom gets boring after awhile.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:06:06 AM by shatterstar

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#66093: Jan 31st 2017 at 10:09:34 AM

[up][up][up] I know a lot of people who share my values, and I don't share a romantic relationship with most of them. I just never got a romantic vibe from them. At all. When they were suddenly talking about coffee I was all "wait...what?".

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#66094: Jan 31st 2017 at 10:15:05 AM

*shrugs* I got the sense they were into each other pretty much when they first met, and especially once they went on that little field trip to Georgia. Note that I say attracted to each other, not 'in love'. They're compatible personality-wise, they're both good-looking people, they have good chemistry with each other. Relationships have been built on a lot less.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:15:26 AM by Unsung

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#66095: Jan 31st 2017 at 10:21:01 AM

Yeah, I got that sense too. Luke and Claire are pretty clearly into each other from the very first time they meet and banter.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:21:17 AM by higherbrainpattern

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#66096: Jan 31st 2017 at 10:45:30 AM

Luke/Claire worked out because it was fairly low-key. Two people who got along well, became emotionally closer over the course of their experiences, and also happened to be attractive people, thinking why the heck not. Made more sense to me than whatever sexual tension Luke/Misty supposedly had, but it was never intended to go further than a one-night stand anyway so it didn't bother me that much. Luke/Jessica is the more interesting relationship from a long-term storytelling perspective and they handled what there was of it pretty well, but I'm going to enjoy Luke/Claire while it's there.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#66097: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:00:05 AM

A relationship is almost like a character of its own, in the sense that it having baggage, contradictions, and problems makes it more human and easier to get invested in (provided it isn't melodramatic). It's not really necessary for it to be a healthy relationship for it to be genuine or well-written, and in fact a more unhealthy or destructive one can be way more fascinating and entertaining to read about (provided, you know, it isn't an unhealthy relationship that we're supposed to think is healthy, as often tends to be the case).

That's why Luke/Jess and Luke/Reva were good. With Reva, Luke's entire conception of that relationship got shattered when he found out she was complicit with the experiments and was sizing him up for them, and now he doesn't know how sincere their relationship actually was. By adding complexity to Reva, the relationship by extension became more interesting, as opposed to how it was portrayed in JJ where Reva was this perfect madonna Luke was grieving over.

Luke and Jessica isn't a saccharine, idealized relationship. They had an encounter and their relationship progressed naturally from their mutual attraction. Jessica not telling him about Reva is well, Jessica. Obviously she was afraid to lose him and was carrying a lot of guilt. It was wrong and fucked up, but that's the character.

Luke/Claire was fine because it wasn't a super big deal. I don't really feel it came out of nowhere so much as it built up very, very gradually.

edited 31st Jan '17 11:02:03 AM by Draghinazzo

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#66098: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:22:10 AM

Luke/Claire came the fuck out of nowhere for me, and I didn't care for them. I didn't want to see Claire with any of the defenders.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#66099: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:24:01 AM

It's only a 50% rate so far

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#66100: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:44:03 AM

Am I the only one who wishes they just wouldn't have romances at all in these? They're always boring and eat up time that could go to more interesting individual character development, real tension, or even just more action scenes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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