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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#65901: Jan 12th 2017 at 5:40:38 PM

I've seen people suggest -some clearly joking, some serious- about post-Civil War Steve taking on the Nomad persona. Something I haven't seen mentioned is Barton. I only know this because of a fanfic I'm reading, but comic!Clint Barton was a mercenary that went by the name Ronin before he got picked up by SHIELD and became Hawkeye. Might he pick that up (or go back to it, if indeed MCU Barton was Ronin prior to SHIELD and, presumably, his wife Laura)? At the very least, the Ronin costume wouldn't make him a walking punchline like the Nomad costume. "Masked ninja" has problems, sure, but it's better than "male stripper". Plus Marvel managed to take something that should be ridiculous -a grown man dressed like a panther- and made it totally badass, so.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65902: Jan 12th 2017 at 5:45:56 PM

I mean, I guess it depends. If they're still gonna be Avenging stuff I don't really think they'd need disguises. If a new team of heroes with powers similar to the fugitive Avengers pop up, is anyone gonna not make the connection?

I've seen people suggest this'll be where Hawkeye finally puts on the mask and it has the same problem. How many superhero archers are there running around in the MCU that people wouldn't make the connection between the two?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#65903: Jan 12th 2017 at 6:18:07 PM

When it comes to Steve becoming the Nomad it's always less about hiding his identity and more about making a point. He drops the USA motif because (for whatever reason) he doesn't feel like he represents the US or the US doesn't represent him. Usually because the government has done some shady shit Rogers goes "well I'm out" or something to this effect. Which fits Steve's actions by the end of Civil War: dropping the shield really serves little purpose other than making a point given it's a valuable weapon.

As for Clint, I think he uses more varied weaponry when in his Ronin identity. Swords, nunchucks and a bow.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65904: Jan 12th 2017 at 6:36:20 PM

I'm aware of that, I'm just saying they'd need a good in-story reason why he'd become Ronin. In the comics be took on the name because he was dead for a while and when he came back he found out there was already a new Hawkeye.

If it's just about using more varied set of weapons, we already saw him beginning to do that in Civil War with his baton or the bow being able to turn into a bo staff.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#65905: Jan 12th 2017 at 6:40:40 PM

I think his reasoning for it in the MCU would be the old trick of superhero secret identities: to protect his family and friends. While his family seems to be hidden in the depths of some top secret location, now that Clint is an official enemy of the entire world (going by the fact the UN backs the accords), he likely wouldn't want to risk their safety and thus disguise himself so as to not draw any attention to himself.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#65907: Jan 12th 2017 at 8:53:03 PM

I'm still trying to understand why a government marksman is using a bow instead of a gun.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#65908: Jan 12th 2017 at 8:56:50 PM

[up][up]

...

That's such a great pun I want them to somehow fit it in the movie. Silliness is no expense.

edited 12th Jan '17 8:57:11 PM by KnownUnknown

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#65909: Jan 12th 2017 at 8:57:26 PM

[up][up]Quieter, and he's just a better shot with it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#65910: Jan 12th 2017 at 9:10:04 PM

The mechanics of Hawkeye's trick arrows, his greatest asset, would also be a lot harder to reproduce in a automatic weapon. For instance, the "hacking arrow" he uses to hack the Helicarrier would likely be impossible in a pistol as the firing process would destroy the hacking drive, and pulling an arrow back with a string is far easier to do than pull a bullet with a string.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#65911: Jan 12th 2017 at 9:26:48 PM

Arrow had Oliver explain that a well trained archer takes a lot more patience and training to use right, being an archaic weapon is something of an advantage for them because people are not familiar with archer tactics. A Trick Arrow also gives them a number of unique options them can plan for that is far more difficult for a regular gunman.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#65912: Jan 12th 2017 at 10:57:00 PM

IIRC Echo originated the Ronin codename. Feels more appropriate to save it for her than have Clint originate it.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65913: Jan 13th 2017 at 6:31:52 AM

I'm still trying to understand why a government marksman is using a bow instead of a gun.

They do make a point of showing that he knows how to use firearms too, so I guess the implication is that he knows how to use both but just prefers to use arrows. Because of reasons.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#65914: Jan 13th 2017 at 6:45:52 AM

I can't remember Clint ever using a firearm....

But like every weapon, the bow has its own set of advantages. For example, a bullet changes its shape during its flight, an arrow head doesn't, so it might be able to penetrate soft armour better (the advantage vanishes once the material is something like steel). A bow is better on the long range than a gun...but not as good as a riffle. Unless you want to be very sure that the projectile ends up in the body of your victim and nowhere else. In this case a bow is still preferable, because an arrow will stick in the body of your victim, while a bullet might go right through or ricochet and hit someone else. A bow is nearly silent. And you can assemble a bow on your own more or less everywhere. You could get the materials for one through every security control. And you can reuse arrows.

In the case of Hawkeye he has the advantage that he can use all kind of nifty trick arrows....even though they are fictional, it is way more realistic to be able to shot of different kinds of arrows with the same bow, than the notion of shooting different kind of bullets from the same weapon. So if Hawkeye would want to send out a light bomb, follow it up with an exploding device and then leave the scene by using a grappling hook, he could do so very fast without having to change his weapon.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65915: Jan 13th 2017 at 7:27:21 AM

I can't remember Clint ever using a firearm....

One of his very first scenes in The Avengers.

His previous cameo in Thor has him reaching for a sniper rifle before he goes for a compound bow instead. His costume in Civil War also has a pistol in a holster but he never uses it.

edited 13th Jan '17 7:29:53 AM by comicwriter

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#65917: Jan 13th 2017 at 7:57:58 AM

When I'm trying to force it to make sense in my head, I remind myself that guns only shoot bullets. You can't get a gun that shoots grenades, grappling hooks, electric booby traps, and USB drives.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Cross (Don’t ask)
#65918: Jan 13th 2017 at 8:25:39 AM

The Punisher managed to get one that shoots knives.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#65919: Jan 13th 2017 at 8:33:44 AM

Well, technically you could but it causes a further strain on believably because guns tend to have magazines and are automatic or semi-automatic, making it less likely for a user to just use the type of "ammunition" they want. Judge Dredd featured the Lawgiver, which allowed a variety of ammunition type coming from the same gun. But arrows in real life already have a number actual "alternate forms" such as flaming and explosive types, because arrows have more mass they can carry more payload.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#65920: Jan 13th 2017 at 8:49:27 AM

That was partly what I was referring to, yes. You can't just grab the exact bullet you need for the present situation the way you can with a trick arrow, because they're all presumably in a magazine.

Also, I think a rifle magazine filled with tiny grappling hooks and USB drives would be too patently ridiculous even for the MCU.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#65921: Jan 13th 2017 at 8:57:39 AM

It just occurred to me to wonder: Tony knows where Clint's home with his family is. After the breakout at the Raft, do you think he's going to supply that information to the authorities so they know where to look for him, or is that something Tony will keep to himself?

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#65922: Jan 13th 2017 at 9:49:12 AM

He's already made it clear that he has no interest in helping to hunt them down. Maybe he'll try to bring them in if he randomly runs into them fighting a supervillain, but he's not going to tell Thunderbolt Ross where to find Clint's family.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#65923: Jan 13th 2017 at 10:09:47 AM

If Steve and crew are tracked down through conventional means Tony will probably step in so things don't get out of hand (like non-Avenger enhanced wild cards), but he won't overtly betray their trust like that.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65924: Jan 13th 2017 at 10:45:59 AM

I think his reasoning for it in the MCU would be the old trick of superhero secret identities: to protect his family and friends.

That would depend on whether or not Team Cap is still together. If he were doing solo hero work a disguise would help, but if not is a mask gonna make much of a difference?

edited 13th Jan '17 10:46:15 AM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#65925: Jan 13th 2017 at 1:18:27 PM

Cassie would actually be in bigger danger, except that she is also the daughter of a cop, which gives her some protection.


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