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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Isn't that what Ao S is doing? I mean, it is not like the show was forced to make the secret warriors more official, that was their decision. They could have kept Coulson underground. But apparently they felt that it was more interesting to show how people deal with the accords....and how they sidestep them.
AOS is still doing that, but not in a way that feels like they have the inside scoop. The way the entire series changed when Winter Soldier dropped was huge, and very cool. The Inhumans story arc in Season 2 felt like it was building up to something. Of course, we all know how that ended, but it does feel like they've been out of the loop since then.
Not really....it feels more like Ao S is running through storylines a little bit too fast because they try to keep up with the movies by giving them all the proper tie-in. And setting up new spin-offs along the way. But I appreciate the fast pace...I just wish that they could have afforded to do more with the secret warriors.
I understand that, but it's a shame nonetheless. I'm not blaming AOS for it— it just seems like the MCU has a great resource in this series from a marketing standpoint, and they're not taking advantage of it. Hence why it now teeters on the brink of cancellation.
edited 13th Dec '16 11:42:29 PM by Unsung
So I was thinking and I decided to try and make my own personal list of the best movie villains in the MCU.
1. Loki. Kind of a no brainer here, all things considered. He's got depth, he's got brains, his development throughout the movies is genuinely interesting, and of course Tom Hiddleston all work to make him the single best thing about the by comparison weaker Thor movies.
2. Baron Zemo. He's at least pretty different from the other villains in that he doesn't even have to fight or anything. All he does is scheme, manipulate, and plot, and it leads to that heartbreaking final fight at the end. Yeah, he isn't in there a lot, but the parts he's in are pretty interesting, and I'm awaiting to see what they do with him next.
3. Red Skull. Is he kinda flat? Yeah, but he's entertaining enough to make up for it. Plus, let's be fair here, he's so fucking evil that I can't help but love him. A guy more evil than the damn Nazis in a love letter to the 1940's like The First Avenger should be crazy over the top, and Hugo Weaving gives it his all.
4. Ronan the Accuser. SO. MUCH. HAM. Like Red Skull, he's relatively flat, but that's more than made up for by being entertaining. Honestly, I wanted to tie him and Red Skull, but Red Skull just felt the better acted and more engaging of the two. Ronan isn't badly acted or anything, but he spends most of the movie working for Thanos, while Red Skull is right from the start his own boss.
5. Alexander Pierce. He may not have been that fleshed out, but Robert Redford owns the role, and Samuel L. Jackson plays off of him quite well. Manipulative, two faced, and scheming, he leaves quite the impact on you.
6. Ultron. OK, yeah, he's not everyone's favorite MCU villain, but the scenes where James Spader is allowed to play sinister and not quip every second portrays a very dark yet at the same time childlike figure born out of confusion and anger. He would've been greater if Whedon had toned down the quips.
7. Dr. Zola. This guy should've been in more stuff. Yeah, he's only what amounts to a major mook for Red Skull in the first Captain America, but the second one makes use of his limited screen time in one of the best scenes in the entire movie. Toby Jones is amazing when he gets to play creepy (just look at that episode of Doctor Who he was in).
8. Winter Soldier. Yeah, he's technically turned good and all, but whatever, Bucky was badass as the secret weapon of Hydra and he's a hell of a stone cold motherfucker. Chilling, scary, and that theme that pops up every time he shows up is a musical jumpscare that actually works.
9. Nebula. Yeah, she's supposed to be turning to the good guy side in Vol. 2, but she's still a friggin' badass in the first one. She has this vibe to her that feels kind of strange, and not like in an alien way, I mean more in a...I guess robotic way? Her weird cybernetic enhancements are pretty good too.
10. Obadiah Stane. For a starter villain, he's not half bad. Never understood the bad rep he gets. Jeff Bridges portrays him well enough that part of me thinks he'd actually make a decent Lex Luthor, and the scenes where he's outside of the Iron Monger armor are pretty good.
11. Abomination. I admit, I have a soft spot for him despite his relative flatness. His fight with the Hulk is still one of my favorite moments in the otherwise bland 2008 film, and the scenes of his body and mind degrading from the super soldier serum are actually some of my favorite parts.
12. Crossbones. A mook, but a fairly major one who leaves a big impact despite his small screen time. His armor design is also pretty good. Plus, he tanked a fucking building falling on top of him. He may not be a super soldier, but damn.
13. Gen. Ross. I kind of like Ross mostly for his moral ambiguity that we see a bit of in Civil War, but admittedly he was the weaker antagonist of the original 2008 Hulk. He's still a fairly good villain regardless, but I think Civil War was what made my opinion of him improve compared to in The Incredible Hulk.
14. Darren Cross. Squandered potential. He had one or two scenes with Pym that helped flesh out his character a tiny bit, but ultimately it didn't amount to much once he lost his mind and put on the Yellowjacket armor. Plus, and I don't know how many people share this opinion, but Corey Stoll came off as kinda wooden to me.
15. Kaecilius. The only reason why he's this high up are because of his cool eye makeup effects and because of Mads Mikkelsen giving a good performance despite the admittedly subpar material, otherwise I would've ranked him closer to the bottom. At least he wasn't gutted as badly through executive meddling like Whiplash or Malekith.
16. Baron Strucker. This guy could've had so much more screen time, but they had Ultron ice him instead. Pity. The comic version is one of the biggest baddies of all time, and I really wanted to see him go up against Nick Fury, but instead we get him having his ass kicked by the Avengers and then Ultron killing him off screen.
17. Batroc. He's a good starter villain for the opening of Winter Soldier, but he's otherwise fairly bland and average. That fight scene with Captain America was pretty good, though.
18. Korath. He's pretty one note and bland, in all honesty, and more or less just another big mook for the Guardians of the Galaxy to fight.
19. Whiplash. Squandered potential. At least he had a cool Russian accent, and that whole speech in the prison cell about making God bleed was well acted, but he's also gutted like certain other villains. He's only up this high because the scenes where he does get to shine are genuinely interesting. Plus, compared to Hammer, he's better.
20. Aldritch Killian. Biggest waste of a twist ever. Look, I liked the Mandarin twist in theory, but come on, they should've given us Maya Hansen as the bad guy instead of this bland twat so we could have a good payoff. His motivation is flimsy and his personality feels like your generic jock stereotype. Friggin' Perlmutter.
21. Justin Hammer. Kinda funny, I guess, but he's nothing more than a sniveling coward and an all around dick who doesn't have much of an entertainment factor to him and goes down in a fairly easy way compared to other villains.
22. Dormammu. Interesting visually, not so much development wise. If he somehow comes back, I'll be fully prepared to rank him higher, but as it stands he only gets like five minutes of screen time in what is admittedly the single best scene in the entirety of Doctor Strange.
23. Malekith. Complete fucking waste of Christopher Eccleston. Only thing I remember is his voice, and that's only because it's a distinctively accented baritone. He's completely gutted beyond belief.
24. Kurse. Blandest mook ever. Only thing I remember is how Loki killed him and how he became Kurse in the first place.
25. Laufey. He's more or less just a victim of Loki's scheming in the end. It took me about twenty watches of Thor to even remember who he was or what his name was because he blends in too well with the other Frost Giants. At least Malekith looked distinctive, I honestly couldn't tell Laufey apart from the other members of his race.
Honorable Mentions:
Baron Mordo. He's only starting his path to villainy right now, so I can't rank him just yet. Chiwetel Ejiofor gives a really good performance either way, so he'll probably itch his way into the top ten someday.
Killain's mooks (I forget their names). The one dude who kicked the crap out of Happy and left him to get blown up was pretty cool, and the chick who got blown up by the microwave had an admittedly inventive death, but otherwise the Extremis soldiers aren't too memorable.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?Looks about right. I might be tempted to rank Ronan higher, but that's not because he gives the better performance, he just happens to be be closer to the kind of scenery-devouring, visually arresting villain I want to see more of in the MCU. Fingers crossed for Vulture and Shocker.
Also, and I'm speaking completely unironically here, if it were my list I'd probably put Zola at the top and move everyone else down a peg. He doesn't have the screentime that Skull or Pierce do, but he's absolutely the villain I most want to see make a comeback right now. Toby Jones is Hydra, at this point, and I really want to see that concept art we got for Ant-Man come to life in And The Wasp.
edited 14th Dec '16 12:07:03 AM by Unsung
Okay....excluding the TV villains....and villains like Laufey who kind of hover around in the margins.....
12. Malekith
That is really no brainer...what the hell was that? The story makes no sense, the performance is dispassionate and there is something really wrong with a villain when his sidekick is more effective and threatening than he himself.
11. Whiplash
Again, what the h.... was that? This guys plan makes zero sense! The costume looks goofy. And I hate the stupid burd....but at least the burd is somewhat memorable, so he gets the spot above Malekith.
10. Killian
Honestly, what is it with the Ironman villains? Again, my issue here is not the unusual take on the Mandarin, but the guy they replaced him with...who just happens to know Pepper and Tony and spews fire for whatever reason. Why does the extremis kind of work on him? Why should he even use it before it is stabilized????
9. Abomination
I like the initial motivation of the character, but I don't get why he would want to be an ugly, uncontrollable monster. And as such, he is not particularly interesting, only something for the Hulk to punch.
8. Cross
Delightfully creepy, but what I don't get is the implication that the suit made him crazy even though he hasn't used it beforehand.
7. Ultron
Would be higher if her were a little bit more effective. I like the idea of an emotional robot, but Scarlet Witch is more successful against the Avengers than he is. He is basically always running away when they turn up, despite having control over the internet and all.
6. Stane
Is a little bit too obviously evil for my taste. Honestly, how could Tony trust him in the first place? But he would still be higher if his final actions in the movie made one lick of sense. He was so smart and sneaky, but he leaves proof against him on his computer and then steals the suit to...do what exactly?
5. Dormamu
As far as uber-powerful beings who hover around in other dimensions go, that one is actually done very well. I believe that he is a threat, even though he is basically a giant CGI face. And his fanatics are dangerous enough, too.
4. Ronan
I honestly don't get the complains about him. He is threatening, he gives the heroes quite a beating, comes very close to winning, and he is delightfully hammy. I understand that the comic version of the character is a little bit more complicated, but that was a wonderful traditional Disney villain - and I really miss those. I am tired of layered villains.
3. Zemo
Thus said, if they are well done, they are really enjoyable. Zemo is smart, and I like smart. He is also extremely ruthless and the kind of enemy, you don't see coming before it is too late.
2. Loki
Easily the most complicated villain in the MCU, while still being hammy at the right moments. Honestly, how can you beat "I am burdened with glorious purpose."? That is just glorious in itself! Can't wait to get more Loki next year.
Honorable mentions:
Justin Hammer and General Ross...I see them both more as antagonists than villains. Hammer isn't particularly threatening, but he is entertaining to watch in his wannabe demeanour. Plus, the actor gets extra-points for turning up in a one-shot for a cameo.
Thanos...I'll judge him once he finally leaves his chair for more than putting on a power glove.....
Mordo....Need to see him doing more villainous things, but I am optimistic.
And my number one MCU villain is:
1. Hydra!!!!
Think about it, The Red Scull, Alexander Pierce, Zola, Whitehall, Grand Ward, Hydra has the best and the creepiest villains by far. And can turn up whenever you expect it at last. I don't count The Winter Soldier as villain, but he is certainly the most terrifying weapon of all. Marvel really deserves more credit for Hydra. (And yes, Hydra deserves a top ten list of its own).
Most of the villains are fairly well acted, with at least one or two really good scenes. Ronan worked as a villain for being so far above the heroes in strength, which has been a major issue throughout the MCU. Most of their villains are struggling to prove themselves better than the hero rather than having more distinct goals. Red Skull was unique for being an Evil Counterpart to Steve while having plans that had nothing to do with him, letting it be subtext without overshadowing the story.
While the Hydra twist was quite good and had some decent villain personalities, their various plots don't really hold up to any sort of scrutiny. Project Insight was going to be selective genocide on an absurdly massive scale using giant cannons, and to accomplish this they would have to basically destroy the very infrastructure they were trying to control (Kill Tony in Stark Tower, that would throw Stark Industries into chaos and make it more difficult to liquefy their assets). In addition it's hard to imagine the rest of the world just brushing off this kind of event, as we've learned from the Death Star even if you have the biggest stick that doesn't mean you can hold out against any and every countermeasure. Subterfuge was the brilliance of the Hydra reveal and their plan ended up painting a giant target on themselves.
Best Hydra members (I am sticking to named ones which had multiple appearances)...and again, The Winter Soldier is a weapon in my eyes, not a villain. Also, Ao S Spoilers....
10. Baron van Strucker /Werner van Strucker
I put those two together because it was a double waste. First Age of Ultron wastes the Baron off-screen and then Agents of Shield introduces his son, lampshades this fact just to waste him more or less immediately, too.
9. Sitwell
Well, he was there...he more or less stands for a number of Hydra characters which were around at one point and played their role. Neither bad nor good....
8. Senator Stern
lol...just lol....
7. Malik
That one was really, really hard to place. The backstory, his eventual fate, everything about this character was just so interesting. He looses points though, due to never being that threatening.
6. Garreth
What can one say, this twist was set up pretty well, though he lost some of his "charming a-hole" personality once he went bat-shit crazy....
5. Doctor Whitehall/Bakshi
"Discovery requires experimentation", "Happy to comply"....do I have to say more?
4. The Red Skull
I am actually a little bit unhappy with the performance there, because it is limited too much on the "crazy Nazi" angle, overlooking some really interesting layers which are set-up in the script but not really in the performance.
3. Crossbones
Honestly, this guy is more memorable than he had any right to be. Kudo's to Grillo!
2. Grand Ward
Thoroughly enjoyable in all his evil incarnations. I am still happy about the show having the balls not to go for an redemption arc.
1. Alexander Pierce
Unlike Stane, Alexander Pierce was actually pretty convincing as a good guy. So convincing that even though I know that he was the most likely traitor in the line-up, when Bucky turns up in his home I considered for a hot second if he was maybe a red-herring. And I like the "he meant well but went way over the line" backstory of him. Those are always the best villains.
Aaaaand, since we are on topic, here my ranking for the Netflix villains (so far) - I didn't bother to list every crime syndicate from Daredevil, though, only the more remarkable and memorable ones.
10. Diamondback
Eh, of the main villains this is by far the weakest so far. Luke Cage really too a nosedive with this one. In addition, there are a few coincidences too many with him. He just happens to be the crime boss in the area Luke Cage decides to hide? That is convenient....
9. The Hand
Urgh, Netflix really has to step up its game there, so far the Hand has failed to work for me on any level. The only reason I put it above Diamondback is because I can see them salvaging the Hand.
8. Owsley
I really liked that he came off as awkward and putting his foot in the mouth multiple times, while pulling the strings in the back. Though he really badly miscalculated in the end.
7. The Russians
They get a spot because I ended up kind of liking them after they kidnapped and hurt Claire!!!!! That is some real story-telling skills there.
6. Madam Gao
As I said, I like smart, and so far she has been the smartest of the villains, always laying in wait for her opportunity.
5. Cottonmouth
The laugh! Really, the laugh made this character....otherwise he is actually pretty stupid. Yeah, let's put all assets in one place, what could possible go wrong? Still, this laugh....
4.Nuke
I really liked to see the slow decent into being a villain...I first didn't see that coming and then realized that I should have been more alarmed over his toxic masculinity. I also really look forward to learn more about the alphabet organisation in the background...they could become the new Hydra.
3. Mariah and Shades
What a pair....again, I like smart, and those two together are nearly impossible to take down. Though I still think that it is BS that they can't put Mariah on trial, the American Justice system is all kinds of stupid.....
2. Kingpin
I actually didn't enjoy him as much in the first season, especially since I felt that Wesley came off more threatening than he did. But in the second season, he really came into his own.
1. Killgrave
Creepy, creepy, creepy, creepy!!!!! He is the stuff for nightmares! And I think that a lot of men have scratched the "smile for me" line out of their vocabulary forever.
I think of Kurse and Korath as being Surprisingly Similar Characters and not in a good way. It's like both of them are a Noble Top Enforcer to the main villain (and I guess Black Best Friend) and seem like the kind of character that could/should have a role in future films, whether Avenging the Villain or as a reformed antagonist, but their characters aren't explored in enough depth and they're both killed unceremoniously.
Tough call which character is the bigger waste. The Dark Elves in general aren't well fleshed out, and I don't think the movie really knew what to do with them, because the film's structure basically calls for a Generic Doomsday Villain that will allow Loki to worm his way into power. Conversely, Korath's misconception of Quill as a Worthy Opponent is interesting and funny.
edited 14th Dec '16 9:01:14 AM by Hodor2
Korath suffers also because he's paired up with Ronan (who is an entertaining and hammy villain despite his flatness) and Nebula (who has a distinctive design, a bit of depth to be explored, and let's be fair, she's pretty attractive). Those two are memorable, and as a consequence Korath gets the short end of the stick. I bet some people only remember him as "that guy who doesn't know Star Lord's name in the opening of the movie". Which is, admittedly, more than can be said for Kurse.
Also, I will join in this fighting, that burd was awesome.
edited 14th Dec '16 11:49:20 AM by AdricDePsycho
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?Korath was a perfect waste of Djimon Hounsou, he really should have gotten more to do. I know why he didn't given how much is already happening in that movie, but I wish he at least had managed to survive to fight another day.
Kurse might as well have just been the Destroyer again. There was no functional difference between the two, and the Destroyer might have actually become mildly interesting if it just kept coming back and getting cycled between Thor's enemies.
Kurse still bothers me, because he has a really interesting plot attached to him, which wouldn't have been difficult at all to add to the movie's plot as it was ultimately written, and had they done it would've done wonders for Malekith's plot in general even if they didn't change Malekith at all. It's imo the most obvious "dropped the characterization ball" moment in Phase 2.
I suspect they're going to use the plot they should've used for Kurse with the Executioner instead.
As much flak as Marvel Studios gets for its same-y villains, they're far worse at writing Dragons, Heavys or otherwise non-primary villains (except for the Russos). Especially in Phase 2, most of our named minions were a waste.
edited 14th Dec '16 12:20:30 PM by KnownUnknown
Marvel has posted a bunch of fireplace vids...I didn't know that those are a thing, but they deserve points for creativity, especially for this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfnloLPcB4E
(watch at least a minute of it).

It does seem to make it pretty clear where AOS comes down on registration, at least. And in fairness to them, finding out about the Accords seemingly around about the same time as everyone else got to see the movie: 'Oh, you guys have a little Secret Warriors plotline happening? That's cute. Well, you were about done with that, right?" ...is kind of a shitty way to treat a show that's supposedly part of the same franchise. This was supposed to be the show that could talk about the aftermath of the movies in real-time.