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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#65601: Dec 9th 2016 at 9:35:35 PM

Strongly agree, especially with the first point. I'm also a person of color and a big Miles fan, and I can't help but think "instead of cannibalizing a bunch of Miles's traits and giving them to Peter, couldn't you have just...done a Miles movie?" Not only does it do both characters a disservice, it seriously hampers the chance of getting a proper Miles introduction down the road. Because half of his characters traits will have already been done. By a white guy.

I mean, I like Peter as much as the next geek, but still - how many movies about white superheroes are we going to get? Not only that - how many movies about Peter? I'm not saying this doesn't look good and all, but we've already had five movies about Peter Parker. It would be nice to see somebody else put on the web shooters for a change.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Cross (Don’t ask)
#65602: Dec 9th 2016 at 9:39:48 PM

Unless Peter suddenly developed a new power and starts one shotting his opponents I don't see your concern.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#65603: Dec 9th 2016 at 10:08:22 PM

I honestly did not care about Spider-Man as a character until he showed up in Civil War.

So really, can anyone give me an honest reason it's easier to name him Peter than Miles aside from 'Well, there's only two"?

Though I admit I've never read either of their comics. Except for Miles's teamup with Gwenpool. Which was neat.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#65604: Dec 9th 2016 at 10:11:26 PM

[up][up]I kinda do.

Yeah, Peter came first, but he who he is, and Miles is who he is. Even if Peter will never start shooting Venom Blasts, they're still eating away at an aspect of Mile's character to prop up Peter, when he already had plenty of stuff to work with.

I suppose they just wanted to avoid using any obvious companions like Mary Jane, Gwen or Harry (who all got their time in the previous movies in one form or another), but I can see the frustration.

And I say this not as a POC myself, but as a guy who likes Peter Parker as Peter Parker.

edited 9th Dec '16 10:11:56 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Cross (Don’t ask)
#65605: Dec 9th 2016 at 10:31:03 PM

Maybe I'm blind then, because I don't see what they're taking away from Miles himself. If this is all coming down to case of "Supporting Cast Jenga", then I get why taking Ganke is important. But it also highlights the same problem with me.

deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#65606: Dec 9th 2016 at 10:35:47 PM

Unless Peter suddenly developed a new power and starts one shotting his opponents I don't see your concern.

I honestly couldn't care less about the powers that Peter has (just as long as he's still Spider-Man). My concern has to with Miles' story being stolen when Peter Parker already has very established and very popular story. Peter Parker is an amazing character. There are numerous ways to tell his story without stealing beats from his successor (who, by the way, isn't even his successor). Plus, Miles broke racial barriers and played a huge part in adding some diversity to the Marvel comics. He deserves to have a theatrical release just as much as Black Panther deserves to have one. And appropriating him is borderline offensive.

edited 9th Dec '16 10:39:42 PM by deuteragonist

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#65607: Dec 9th 2016 at 10:46:04 PM

Yeah. It's in no way about the powers, because we've seen no indications that they'll divert from Peter's classic power loadout. It's about basic elements of Miles's character concept being taken away from him and given to Peter. It devalues both characters, and is also another insult to fans who want to see more diversity in the MCU. There were already people who were (not unreasonably) annoyed that we were getting a sixth movie about Peter Parker instead of one about Miles - for them, this is just salt in the wound.

  • FANS: "Instead of a sixteenth movie about a white guy, could we maybe have a movie about the new and popular character Miles Morales?"
  • MARVEL: "I tell ya what, we'll compromise. We'll do the white guy, but we'll give him a bunch of Miles's character traits, and never actually do Miles. How's that sound?"
  • FANS: "..."

I don't doubt that the movie will be good, and I acknowledge that it's too early to tell to what degree they've drawn inspiration from Miles, but I won't pretend that I'm not still annoyed at the whole situation.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#65608: Dec 9th 2016 at 10:56:28 PM

I don't see him having Miles' character traits, just Ganke . Plus really if you guys thought you're going to get Miles anytime in the next ten years if ever you only have yourself to blame for your disappointment. Marvel was never going to scrap Peter and just make Miles Spider-Man, nor were they ever going to kill Peter off (a huge part of the M.C.U's appeal is the following each character build) or at least not until he gets a trilogy. It'd be way to huge a departure from the lore even for a franchise that largely doesn't care about that. This really doesn't affect Miles' chances of showing up because a) you can't get much lower and b) you might still get Miles just without Ganke.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#65609: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:04:17 PM

Specifically, which character traits were taken from Miles that Peter didn't already have?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#65610: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:05:36 PM

I understand your guys concerns, but I don't see any "character traits" that Peter is stealing from Miles. The only thing I see as similar is that now Peter has a Ganke-like friend, but other than, how else is Peter being similar to Miles? Hell, Peter was part of Civil War and I didn't see any of Miles' traits in him then.

Also, the movie is out yet and the only footage we have is from the trailer, so judging any character is going to be very hit or miss.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#65611: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:05:59 PM

[up] Friendship with an adorkable Asian guy, but nothing else. And a quasi mentor relationship with Iron man maybe.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#65612: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:07:38 PM

And a quasi mentor relationship with Iron man maybe.
That comes straight from 616 Peter and 616 Iron Man (aside from the fact that 616 Peter is older, Tony still mentored him a bit and gave him a new Iron Spider suit and everything).

edited 9th Dec '16 11:08:12 PM by alliterator

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#65613: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:16:38 PM

Honestly, playing around with Peter's supporting staff is nothing new. The Spectacular Spider-Man Race Lifted the majority of white characters into minorities.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#65614: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:17:56 PM

If they ever use Miles in the movies, I kinda want them to give him a different superhero name if they wanna still use Peter as Spider-Man. Compromise if they can.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Cross (Don’t ask)
#65615: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:19:52 PM

I have trying think of a way to carefully word this, but as a POC, do want Miles for the sake of diversity or because you believe he can stand on his own?

Honestly, to me, Miles will have difficulty working without his forerunner. Removing pieces from him might hurt, but it wouldn't make a future appearance unsalvageable. However, he isn't like characters Black Panther or Luke Cage. He doesn't have the history or story that makes him necessary.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#65616: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:21:43 PM

[up][up] That baffles me in the new 616 continuity. He got Spider powers and then decided to call himself Spiderman too ?

Does he not get how names work.

deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#65617: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:33:26 PM

I don't see him having Miles' character traits, just Ganke . Plus really if you guys thought you're going to get Miles anytime in the next ten years if ever you only have yourself to blame for your disappointment. Marvel was never going to scrap Peter and just make Miles Spider-Man[...] It'd be way to huge a departure from the lore even for a franchise that largely doesn't care about that. This really doesn't affect Miles' chances of showing up because a) you can't get much lower and b) you might still get Miles just without Ganke.

I'm not saying they should have scrapped Peter Parker. That would be a terrible decision. And yeah, to be fair, he is STILL very much Peter Parker. I just don't understand why they felt the need to use Ganke's character and essentially use Miles storyline; even right down to how he found out about his identity. There's also a suspicious lack of classic Spidey characters. Yeah, sure, there's Liz Allen and Aunt May, but there's no Mary Jane, Gwen Stacy, Flash Thompson, Harry or Norman Osborn. Instead, we have Michelle (who looks ironically like Katie Bishop) and a very diverse cast; which, once again, probably never would have happened without Miles.

[up][up]BOTH. Diversity for diversity's sake is very rarely a bad thing (as long as everyone is represented well). However, Miles is a great character; he can totally have his own movie. But here's the thing: they SHOULD use Peter Parker first. He's freaking Spider-Man for crying out loud. But they should have used Peter's story for Peter and saved Miles' story for later or just left it alone; especially if they're not going to use him. Give us a few Peter Parker movies, but let Miles still have a role somehow. The marvel movies are really good at building a character up (kind of like how Sam Wilson is in the Captain America movies).

edited 9th Dec '16 11:46:53 PM by deuteragonist

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#65618: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:36:02 PM

A decent approach might have Miles take on the Scarlet Spider persona.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#65619: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:45:04 PM

If they ever use Miles in the movies, I kinda want them to give him a different superhero name if they wanna still use Peter as Spider-Man. Compromise if they can.
I believe the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon named him "Kid Arachnid." Although I'd prefer if they just called him Spider-Man.

That baffles me in the new 616 continuity. He got Spider powers and then decided to call himself Spiderman too ?
Miles Morales is one of the few characters that remembers coming from the Ultimate Universe. That is why he calls himself Spider-Man.

I just don't understand why they felt the need to use Ganke's character and essentially use Miles storyline
I don't see them using Miles' storyline at all — certainly, I can't see them using Miles' storylines because Miles has a mother and father and his uncle who is a criminal, a family that is vastly different from Peter's. What you're describing is essentially one thing — Ganke — and that's pretty much it.

There's also a suspicious lack of classic Spidey characters.
Nope, there is actually a ton of classic Spidey characters, just not ones that have been used in the movies: in addition to Liz Allen and Ned Leeds, the film will have Betty Brandt, Flash Thompson, and Sally Avril, not to mention all of the characters they haven't revealed yet.

But they should have used Peter's story for Peter and saved Miles' story for later or just left it alone; especially if they're not going to use him. Give us a few Peter Parker movies, but let Miles still have a role somehow.
I actually think this is what they are doing. Two of the unrevealed roles are who Donald Glover and Abraham Attah are playing — and one of the big guesses is that Glover is playing Aaron Davis, the Prowler, and Attah is playing his nephew, Miles Morales. Attah is fifteen at the moment, which means he is definitely in the age range to play Miles.

edited 9th Dec '16 11:47:48 PM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#65620: Dec 9th 2016 at 11:50:38 PM

I asked this question beforehand, but I never got a satisfying answer: What exactly makes Miles so much different and better than Peter? Other than the origin, naturally, which is tied into Peter having existed at one point.....

See, this is exactly the reason why I don't really like legacy characters. They will always stand pretty much at the very end of the line when it comes to on-screen adaptation. In fact, it is very likely that Miss Marvel makes it on screen long before Miles does it. But characters like Falcon or Black Panther, they stand at the very beginning of their line from the get go.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#65621: Dec 10th 2016 at 12:01:19 AM

Wait, I thought The Prowler was Hobie Brown.

My various fanfics.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#65622: Dec 10th 2016 at 12:03:33 AM

1610 (Ultimate) Prowler was Aaron Davis.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#65624: Dec 10th 2016 at 12:06:02 AM

Plus, have Peter and Miles ever been Spider-Man at the same point in time? I don't really follow the current comics so I don't know if Peter is still Spider-Man as well.

edited 10th Dec '16 12:06:21 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#65625: Dec 10th 2016 at 12:07:50 AM

Yeah, Peter is still Spider-Man, but he's kind of abandoned being street level at this point so I guess Miles has that covered.

My various fanfics.

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