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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#65476: Dec 7th 2016 at 7:59:38 PM

I'm uncertain why it needs to be anything more than a fan being happy.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#65477: Dec 7th 2016 at 8:00:18 PM

That's about it, really. People are gushing about it because it's his classic look, and it almost never shows up in adaptations. They have no real purpose.

[nja]'d. Like [up] said, it makes fans happy.

edited 7th Dec '16 8:00:49 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#65478: Dec 7th 2016 at 8:21:17 PM

I mean, it does also serve a practical purpose — it allows Spider-Man to glide along the air.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#65479: Dec 7th 2016 at 8:23:31 PM

Just like a spider can.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#65480: Dec 7th 2016 at 9:03:29 PM

Baby spiders do.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#65482: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:56:34 PM

That's pretty great.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#65484: Dec 8th 2016 at 9:37:08 AM

Small rant here but...after watching a number of recent discussions about the Inhumans I have to honestly say that I am really feed up with the attitude in the Marvel fandom that somehow only Netflix can do a good TV show. Really? I mean, really? I know that many people have given up on Agents of Shield early on, but the show has just gotten better and is by now, in my honest opinion, the best show on Network TV...it might even end up the best show by Marvel in general if it keeps delivering. Agent Carter was great, even though the second season was weaker than the first, it was a shame that the show was cancelled. On the flipside, as good as the Netflix shows are, they have a bunch of weaknesses. They struggle with filling 13 episodes with relevant plot while Ao S easily does a full network season which is packed with plot from start to finish. They struggle with explaining the wacky and supernatural, due to their shows being so "grounded", and as a result they really mucked up the Hand, while in Ao S the sentence "don't let the android read the magical book" makes totally sense and somehow fits into the world which feels both realistic and wacky (it is kind of impressive, really). They have done so far only very basic CGI work (and the chain in DD Season 2 was obviously fake), while Ao S plays around with CGI all the time. And on top of all this, the Netflix schedule is full, more than full, there is no room for more shows. We should be glad for every project which is brought on the way, no matter where it ends up, at least until Marvel actually starts messing up with its TV shows. This "I am so cool because I only like the edgy Netflix shows" attitude really grates me at this point.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#65485: Dec 8th 2016 at 9:41:59 AM

I don't see why it should bother anyone.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#65486: Dec 8th 2016 at 10:13:29 AM

[up] Because this attitude might deprive us from some really good shows.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65487: Dec 8th 2016 at 10:23:05 AM

My guess is the perception exists because The Netflix shows thus far have all gotten fairly positive reviews right out the gate, while AOS, despite having drastically improved, still has a Never Live It Down aura because of how hated the first half of Season One is.

The fact that they had to contend with filling a full network TV order is likely part of the reason why Season 1 was so weak, but people mistakenly act like the fact that it was on network TV and not Netflix is the sole reason for the lack of quality, which is a bit disingenuous.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#65488: Dec 8th 2016 at 10:39:05 AM

Part if it is also the fact that "network" shows are generally seen as lesser. If you read about Rachel Bloom and her trying to find a home for the excellent show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, she says how they initially pitched it only to cable channels, because they didn't think of it as a "network" show. It was only when they saw Jane the Virgin on the CW that they realized that there were "network" shows that were doing great things.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#65489: Dec 8th 2016 at 11:03:30 AM

I stopped watching AOS midway through Season 1 and never looked back. Meanwhile all the Netflix stuff tends to be appointment viewing for me.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#65490: Dec 8th 2016 at 11:14:36 AM

That's exactly it. AOS kicked off midway through season 1 onwards.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#65491: Dec 8th 2016 at 11:16:10 AM

That being said, you shouldn't feel compelled to watch it again just because of us.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#65492: Dec 8th 2016 at 11:55:55 AM

I actually made it almost all of the way through Season 1 before dropping out, so from what I've heard I should have seen the part where it Grows the Beard. I think the show just really isn't for me.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#65493: Dec 8th 2016 at 11:56:39 AM

TV shows also have a reputation for lower budget and production values compared to the Netflix shows and people clearly care about the flashy side of things (hell that was a huge part of Dr. Strange's appeal). They probably dismiss AOS because they think it looks comparatively cheap or the lower budget means they can't hire as competent crewmembers.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#65494: Dec 8th 2016 at 12:01:19 PM

Jessica Jones did have a pretty noticeable low budget, though, at least to my eyes. It was hardly a deal breaker, given the quality of the writing, but the incredibly unconvincing manner in which they shot Jessica's super-leaping still never stopped being funny.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#65495: Dec 8th 2016 at 12:14:20 PM

I actually made it almost all of the way through Season 1 before dropping out, so from what I've heard
It depends on which episode you dropped out from. Most people agree the show really took off during the crossover from The Winter Soldier, so start with episode 1x16 "End of the Beginning" and 1x17 "Turn Turn Turn" and then go from there. Those are some of the very best episodes of the series, including what I think is probably the best episodes, 1x20 "Nothing Personal" and 1x22 "Beginning of the End."

edited 8th Dec '16 12:15:20 PM by alliterator

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#65496: Dec 8th 2016 at 12:16:21 PM

Can't remember precisely where I quit, but I remember it happened after The Reveal about Ward. From the sense I've received, if I wasn't enjoying it by then I probably wasn't going to.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#65497: Dec 8th 2016 at 12:24:16 PM

It has its ups and downs (Season 3 was weaker than Season 2 and had a really bad case of fridging), but the rest of it keeps getting better and better.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65498: Dec 8th 2016 at 12:46:59 PM

Jessica Jones did have a pretty noticeable low budget, though, at least to my eyes. It was hardly a deal breaker, given the quality of the writing, but the incredibly unconvincing manner in which they shot Jessica's super-leaping still never stopped being funny.

Yeah. I've never understood why people seem to think Netflix has a bigger SFX budget. I don't think their SFX budget is much higher than SHIELD's, they just very wisely chose to exclusively use heroes who don't require a lot of CGI. I have no idea where this perception that the Netflix shows are big budget blockbusters compared to network TV comes from.

The most expensive thing about them is probably that they actually film on location in New York.

edited 8th Dec '16 12:47:26 PM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#65499: Dec 8th 2016 at 12:51:38 PM

I remember there was a lot of debating over whether or not Agents of SHIELD would have the budget to show off Ghost Rider, and then when the first episode of Season 4 aired it was more or less agreed that they did a good job with the effects. The show has admittedly had some lackluster effects (especially early on), but they've gotten a lot better.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#65500: Dec 8th 2016 at 3:17:56 PM

Everyone who claims that ABC can't handle the special effects should watch the special they did for Agents Carter, in which was shown how much in the show actually was fake. I was very stunned, to be honest. Agents of Shield effects are sometimes slightly hokey compared to a high budget blockbuster, but for TV they are actually very impressive. By now the show runners have figured out where to put the money and where they can get something very effective by being less flashy.

The Netflix shows haven't shown anything even near to what ABC did in this regard.

Extra-props for the details, btw. Not only did Ao S the Ghostrider very convincing, they also went through the effort to create three different skulls. That is dedication.

Look, I get that Ao S is not for everyone. A lot of people actually don't want those long story-arcs, and Ao S is a show which actually assumes that the viewer is invested enough to maybe remember a detail or two. That is not for everyone, nor does everyone like the breakneck speed in which the show runs through story-arcs. But I wish that people would complain about the show not being what it never wanted to be. "oh, it is too beholden to the movies"...yeah, it is, but that is kind of the point. "Oh, there are no connections to the movies.".....yeah, there were only guest appearances of Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Sitwell, Sif, President Ellis among others, it clearly doesn't offer any additional information at all, right?...there are apparently also people who have a problem with the fact that it is a spy show, for some weird reason.

I, btw, would always say that one has to watch the whole of season 1 at the very least to be able to judge if the show might hit the personal taste, though in order to really judge it, season 2 is kind of mandatory, because only then one can truly appreciate the whole scope of the show. It is practically The Sixth sense in that watching the first season again is a very different experience once you have all the information of Season 2.

I mostly like the show because it is so unpredictable. But my point was actually less to launch into a defence of Ao S. My point was more that this fixation on Netflix really blinds a lot of people to the fact that a lot of shows might be better served on Network TV. Binge watching is nice and all, but sometimes it is great to built up drama slowly, to have time to speculate about what might come next.

Also....on which Network do you expect the Ghostrider/Midnight sons show which has clearly been set up to turn up eventually?

edited 8th Dec '16 3:21:55 PM by Swanpride


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