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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#65101: Nov 22nd 2016 at 10:42:03 AM

Yeah I'm going to say that Juggernaut is fundamentally an X Men character and even if somehow his rights aren't tied to them (which they probably are), he's associated so much with them that he'd never be considered for the MCU.

Wanda and Pietro are the exception that proves the rule. My understanding is that Wanda is more of an Avengers character and Pietro more of an X Men one, which probably explains why Pietro is killed off in the MCU and Wanda doesn't appear in the X Men movies.

I do wonder about the rights for Whirlwind, since he's an Ant-Man villain who happens to be a mutant- the mutant thing is just like the flavortext for his powers. Ditto Squirrel Girl I suppose who has gone back and forth on the mutant thing (naturally with some tongue-in-cheek Leaning on the Fourth Wall).

edited 22nd Nov '16 10:42:14 AM by Hodor2

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#65102: Nov 22nd 2016 at 10:43:50 AM

Character's don't automatically get lumped in with the X-Men because they're mutants, or not if they aren't. Rather, most mutants are with Fox because they're X-Men characters (in contrast, Wasp's archenemy Whirlwind is likely to be with Marvel Studios despite being a mutant, because he has no connection to the X-Men) and non-mutant characters likewise. And as a classic member of their Rogues Gallery - whose history would be tied up with their team even if he wasn't the half brother of their leader - Juggernaut isn't just an X-Men character, he's an iconic X-Men character.

While he's been used pretty extensively due to Marvel Comics' love of having characters interact with their whole universe rather than single isolated groups, he's still no less an integral X-Men character than Dr. Doom is an integral Fantastic Four character despite fighting characters who aren't them all the time.

edited 22nd Nov '16 10:48:16 AM by KnownUnknown

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#65103: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:09:19 AM

There is of course an absolutely fantastic storyline where Juggernaut goes up against Spider-Man, but that doesn't make him a Spider-Man rogue. Juggernaut has appeared in pretty much every iteration of X-Men going, not to mention the only MCU hero he could have any kind of personal beef with is Strange, and then only if Cytorak (the deity him/itself) is introduced.

If you want a simple, strong smashy villain without the X-Men links then just call in the Wrecking Crew, or Absorbing Man. Or Abomination... there's plenty without all the X-baggage.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#65104: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:19:06 AM

Or Hammer and Anvil.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65105: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:22:47 AM

Character's don't automatically get lumped in with the X-Men because they're mutants, or not if they aren't. Rather, most mutants are with Fox because they're X-Men characters (in contrast, Wasp's archenemy Whirlwind is likely to be with Marvel Studios despite being a mutant, because he has no connection to the X-Men) and non-mutant characters likewise. And as a classic member of their Rogues Gallery - whose history would be tied up with their team even if he wasn't the half brother of their leader - Juggernaut isn't just an X-Men character, he's an iconic X-Men character.

Yup. And I'd say the fact that he's already been in an X-Men movie sorta seals the deal on that. If he's a shared rights character I'm sure SOMEONE would have mentioned it by now.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#65106: Nov 22nd 2016 at 12:10:25 PM

Would Gwenpool be under Marvel? She's got barely anything to do with Deadpool outside of a similar name, and even then they retconned that into her name literally being Gwen Poole.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65107: Nov 22nd 2016 at 12:16:20 PM

I have no idea how that'd break down. Probably not? She's a derivative character of Deadpool to be sure, and she was literally created as part of a series of gimmick covers where Gwen Stacy was dressing as famous Marvel heroes. So even if there's been Divergent Character Evolution since then, she began life as literally "Gwen Stacy dressed in a Rule 63 Deadpool cosplay."

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#65108: Nov 22nd 2016 at 12:36:58 PM

I don't think the concept of Gwenpool would work in the MCU anyway. The whole idea is that she's a person from the real world who takes advantage of comic book conventions in order to cause shenanigans. Even if you switch that to "action movie conventions" the fact that the MCU tries to act like more of a "real" world (and actually rather frowns on shenangians and prefers Reality Ensues, with Ant-Man being the sole exception) than the comics would hurt the character concept.

For a similar reason, while I really want to see Spider-Gwen it would be really difficult for the MCU to use her without simply modifying her to be Spider-Girl instead (in which case, I'd prefer Arana), at least not for years and years.

edited 22nd Nov '16 12:37:27 PM by KnownUnknown

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#65109: Nov 22nd 2016 at 12:53:05 PM

I can see a Gwenpool movie, but not in the MCU...same for Spider-Gwen. That is something they can do down the line, when the MCU has played out, as a palette cleanser.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#65110: Nov 22nd 2016 at 12:59:50 PM

not to mention the only MCU hero he could have any kind of personal beef with is Strange, and then only if Cytorak (the deity him/itself) is introduced.
I was thinking he'd maybe be better as a Vision foe. One wants to be more human, the other hated being human and vulnerable; both had douchebag fathers. One literally is mind-powered, the other is brute force personified, etc. Or he could be a personal foil for Scarlet Witch in that unlike her, he hated his brother. Maybe he could be a former soldier who Wanda off-handedly telepathically fragged back when she was working for Hydra. Juggernaut in fact could be a symbolic representation of her past sins catching up to her. The "red in her ledger" so to speak.

edited 22nd Nov '16 1:02:01 PM by nervmeister

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65111: Nov 22nd 2016 at 1:35:21 PM

Someone said with Angela Bassett we're not at 40 Oscar winners or nominees in the MCU.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#65112: Nov 22nd 2016 at 2:02:04 PM

[up][up] I feel oddly suspicious that this elaborate backstory is a lead up for having him say, "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch."

Re various Spider-people, I feel like it's oddly likely because I know that the (still awful?) Ultimate Marvel cartoon and its spin-offs have done Spider-Verse. Not necessarily Spider-Gwen, because you'd have to kill her first in the movies, but I could definitely see Kaine, Miles Morales, and Silk.

edited 22nd Nov '16 2:04:15 PM by Hodor2

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#65113: Nov 22nd 2016 at 2:05:28 PM

[up]As long as it can be delivered as convincingly as Karl Urban when he said "I'm the law!", I'm okay with it. And the backstory is not at all elaborate.

edited 22nd Nov '16 2:07:25 PM by nervmeister

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65114: Nov 22nd 2016 at 2:11:34 PM

Again it's all kind of moot anyway since Juggernaut cannot be used in the MCU.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#65115: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:09:37 PM

I just realized that Spider-Man's probably going to be the MCU's first movie hero that's close to the public. I mean, the public is supposed to be unsure whether he's a hero or a menace, but he's not thought of as larger than life and involved in mostly classified things like Iron Man or Cap, but he's not on the fringes like Ant-Man either.

The people know Spidey in a way they don't with most of the MCU's other characters. I'm glad this means they would have a hero who emphasizes this in both their films and tv shows, since it's a big thing in Luke Cage too.

Here's hoping for lots of Straczynski-esque scenes here and there where Spidey's casually interacts with New Yorkers as a person, like this one.

edited 22nd Nov '16 3:10:51 PM by KnownUnknown

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#65116: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:26:39 PM

Ok, that is pretty cool.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65118: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:56:21 PM

Kevin Feige talking about Captain Marvel.

If you had the collector cards of the Marvel characters and you could see the power levels, she would be off the charts compared to anyone that we’ve previously introduced in a film.

With Captain Marvel, who has powers that approach a level that we haven’t seen before in our films, you need to counter- balance that by finding somebody who is also very human and very relatable and can get into a groove with the audience, where they’re willing to see her fly through the sun and punch a moon away from a spacecraft. At the same time, we need her to land and have relatable flaws.

Brie is a person you’re going to want to go on this journey with, just like Benedict or Robert or Chris Pratt.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#65119: Nov 22nd 2016 at 4:27:42 PM

[up]Like I said, the only way I see her being the most powerful is if Strange hasn't yet achieved his full potential by the time she debuts.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#65120: Nov 22nd 2016 at 4:32:55 PM

Yeah, after Strange's display, I'm preemptively underwhelming myself for "Most powerful character yet".

My various fanfics.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#65121: Nov 22nd 2016 at 4:36:30 PM

Tom Holland goes to visit sick kids as Spider-Man, gets owned.

Half-expected the kid to say: "Batman has more money."

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#65122: Nov 22nd 2016 at 5:10:24 PM

Inspired by a listicle: What is your favorite piece of dialogue in the MCU?

I'm still partial to "I'm Clint." "I don't care."

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#65123: Nov 22nd 2016 at 5:25:16 PM

"Can you move your seat up?"

"No."

My various fanfics.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#65124: Nov 22nd 2016 at 6:07:35 PM

You know, with the benefit of hindsight...

I don't care what anyone says, I still love that movie, and I rather like that version of Ultron, even if he's very different from his comic counterpart.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#65125: Nov 22nd 2016 at 6:14:49 PM

My favorite dramatic line is 'I may not be the man I was when the Captain took me prisoner in 1945, but I am.' Still sends goosebumps up my spine.

Favorite funny line changes depending on what I've seen last. Currently it's something spoilery from Dr. Strange.

edited 22nd Nov '16 6:15:28 PM by KnownUnknown


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