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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64726: Nov 3rd 2016 at 3:26:12 PM

I would be inclined to agree if Defenders was a movie. It is not. It is a Netflix series. It will have approximately 11-14 hours to bring the characters together, which allows for far more intricate plotting and organic development than a 2-hour "Shit's happening! We're a team now! IT'S FIGHTING TIME!!!" blockbuster.

edited 3rd Nov '16 3:26:27 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64727: Nov 3rd 2016 at 3:33:14 PM

Man, it's hard to think that Charlie Cox has had nearly twice the screentime that Robert Downey Jr. has had so far within the MCU.

And Clark Gregg dwarfs all of them.

edited 3rd Nov '16 3:35:57 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#64728: Nov 3rd 2016 at 3:34:06 PM

Also, the Avengers needed something to avenge.

Presumably, the Defenders will need something to defend

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#64729: Nov 3rd 2016 at 4:00:55 PM

I think motivating them to work together could just be a case of each one taking on Sigourney Weaver's character (or at least her operations, which span a good chunk of the city) separately and failing miserably.

As they all get seriously injured in the process of failing miserably, they all call on Claire Temple for help, and after she realizes they are all fighting the same enemy she puts them in touch with each other.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64730: Nov 3rd 2016 at 4:02:15 PM

[up]Yeah, that. Do that, Marvel.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#64731: Nov 3rd 2016 at 4:22:02 PM

Honestly while I get why people compare Claire to Coulson (she does kinda fulfill that role in a cross-continuity meta sense) her story role seems more like Fury's to me, as a highly competent Lancer who can both watch over base of operations and get into the fray from time to time.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#64732: Nov 3rd 2016 at 5:26:58 PM

Jessica, Luke, and Danny are basically going to say "Really old man dies, news at 11"

Plot Twist: Jessica and Stick become Vitriolic Best Buds by bonding over their shared disdain for people and general grumpiness.

Well, as I've said before you can conceivably link Jessica, Luke, and Matt's powers to whatever the hell IGH is doing, just add in some secret ties to Rand Industries and you're set.

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#64733: Nov 3rd 2016 at 6:17:31 PM

Rand could have been be funding IGH. Maybe Harold Meachum was involved and knew what they were doing, Wendell found out and that's what finally made Harold decide to try and seize the company.

Crow: There's a plot?
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#64734: Nov 3rd 2016 at 6:23:35 PM

The company being involved in illegal superpower experiments would be a nice touch. I've been worrying that Iron Fist, by pitting a mystical martial artist against ordinary corporate criminals, would face the same problems Luke Cage did, where the villains seem laughably unthreatening next to the hero.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#64735: Nov 3rd 2016 at 11:12:18 PM

[up] Thankfully, I don't think he's going to go up against normal criminals all the time — I believe they have confirmed that we will see other Immortal Weapons.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64736: Nov 3rd 2016 at 11:21:53 PM

Maybe it'll be like Kill Bill with Danny just going and taking down each rival Immortal Weapon one by one.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64737: Nov 3rd 2016 at 11:26:33 PM

[up]That sounds like an awesome idea.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64738: Nov 4th 2016 at 1:50:51 AM

Sorry, back to the fridging discussion....fridging doesn't mean "a female character dies and someone else is upset about it" because, well, this is kind of why characters die in the media, so that someone else (or at least the audience) feels either upset or triumphant (if said character was a villain) about it. It means specifically that a villain kills a female character for no other reason than to make the hero upset. You could even argue that Gwen Stacy's dead wasn't really a fridging, because while the Goblin threw her from the bridge, the point was that Peter was there an made a mistake while saving her, so it is a little bit more complicated than that.

The only pretty straightforward fridging in the MCU is Rosalind (and for the record, I think that one was well-done overall and proof that tropes aren't bad), you can't even count Frigga in the list because while the writer killed her off to have a motivation for Loki, Thor and Odin, the villain didn't, she was just in his way. Peggy dying would have been one if Zemo had poisoned her to throw Steve of his game, but again, that didn't happen, she died of old age which is, imho, the most badass thing a secret agent with a long list of enemies can do!

So, the likelihood that Claire is fridged is, imho, pretty low overall. That she dies to motivate the Defenders in some way....well, maybe. But for all the grittiness of the Netflix shows, they are very reluctant to kill of the actual heroes of the stories or their most trusted side-kicks, instead they keep introducing characters to die at one point. Foggy wasn't killed by the bullet of the punisher, Claire survived getting kidnapped by the Russians, Karen always manages to somehow escape difficult situations, Trish made it to the hospital in time, Hogarth survived the thousand cuts, Misty is still up and running...they just have invested way too much to built up Claire as a character that they would kill her, especially since she is a gold-mine. Why do you think they featured her in the Luke Cage trailer? Or hinted that she would be in Iron Fist? Because they knew that there are people who would turn into the shows just to see her.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#64739: Nov 4th 2016 at 2:12:32 AM

Stick being a death to pull everyone into a team would be an odd turn, because he's doesn't have that kind of relationship with the characters - even Matt, really. Don't get me wrong, I actually do think he's going to die, but his is the kind of character/death that encourages the characters to do something specific, not to build up Heroic Resolve in general.

He's Qui-Gon, dying so that Obi-Wan finally agrees to train Anakin, not Padme, dying so that Anakin can wallow in his guilt and - twenty five or so years later - realize he was wrong.

So I don't think his death is going to be a "die so that they all learn to work together" death like Coulson. More of a "die so that Matt finally takes the torch he's passing and becomes serious about fighting the Hand."

On a tangential note, all of the Netflix shows have had a "the characters pin their hopes upon a person, a minor character who either has the potential for great good or inspires it in the protagonist, only for that character to die and prove that hope sometimes doesn't happen" plot. Several, even. So the big team rallying death, if our Genre Savvy is right and it does actually happen, could be one of those.

edited 4th Nov '16 2:15:43 AM by KnownUnknown

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64740: Nov 4th 2016 at 5:13:30 AM

I was joking about killing off Stick. He seems more of a deconstruction of the usual mentor character, and I don't think anyone in universe is attached enough to him that it would make a difference. In addition I find people dying to motivate the heroes a rather dull narrative device, which should be used sparingly - and all four main characters already have traumatising deaths in their past. And Luke has both a dead wife and a dead mentor, at some point it gets repetitive.

Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#64741: Nov 4th 2016 at 11:17:53 AM

In other news, Feige says the Inhumans film is still a go & could happen in Phase 4.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64742: Nov 4th 2016 at 12:03:08 PM

Honestly, I never got how the outlets came to the conclusion that the movie is cancelled...Feige said from the get go that it is off from the schedule for phase 3, not that there won't be one at all.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#64743: Nov 4th 2016 at 12:27:49 PM

Phase 4 really would be the best place for it, as a massive empowerment event would be a good way to kick off a wave of smaller stories, rather than dealing with the aftermath of Infinity War.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64744: Nov 4th 2016 at 12:49:38 PM

Yeah, if I had control over the MCU, I would do some smaller stories as plate cleansers, perhaps even go all experimental and leave the action movie format a little bit...and then I would start to put in easter eggs hinting that the secret invasion might already been underway, so that the audience goes back and tries to figure out which character might be real and which one a replacement.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#64745: Nov 4th 2016 at 1:05:00 PM

I imagine by the time both Infinity Wars have hit theaters "superhero fatigue" will truly have set in. Doing smaller stories is the only real way for the MCU to survive past that or else it's just going to become diminishing returns.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64746: Nov 4th 2016 at 1:10:41 PM

Btw, I think this is the right moment to mention how awesome the last episode of Agents of Shield was...I mean, where else did you get a fight between Ghost Rider and Patriot and at the end of the episode, it kind of is easy to forget because there was so much other great stuff in the episode...

I really don't know how I am suppose to survive the hiatus. Damn election.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#64747: Nov 4th 2016 at 1:33:25 PM

That was pretty cool.

For context Robbie managed to break out of a containment unit that was able to contain Lash in the previous season.

While I don't think they are the same kind, I think they are probably based on the same units from The Avengers that held Loki, briefly held Thor (though he did eventually break out himself) and was originally made to hold the Hulk.

I'm not sure how strong Ghost Rider is supposed to be physically, but that's an impressive feat.

He then laid a pretty solid beat down on Jeffrey Mace, but Mace took it like a man, and was walking around later on like it was nothing (he showed no visible injury at all).

Quite a day for the Ghost Rider.

Edit: About to see Doctor Strange in a few minutes. Will tell you afterwards if it's odd, abnormal, or merely normal.tongue

edited 4th Nov '16 1:50:40 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64748: Nov 4th 2016 at 1:53:11 PM

Jeffrey Mace is an obscure enough character that I actually didn't realize he was from the comics. Which, frankly, happens a lot on this show. They really do scrape the bottom of the barrel for characters they're allowed to use sometimes.

...

He was Captain F*cking America?!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#64749: Nov 4th 2016 at 1:58:51 PM

Yeah.

Though in Agents Of Shield, he's an Inhuman.

One Strip! One Strip!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#64750: Nov 4th 2016 at 1:59:12 PM

[up][up]Yup. After the previous replacement Cap was bear hugged to death by a robot. Being Captain America is an unglamorous job.

edited 4th Nov '16 1:59:53 PM by comicwriter


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