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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64676: Nov 2nd 2016 at 4:52:48 PM

I'm not sure if Stick can do all the same things as Matt. And maybe it took him longer to learn?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64677: Nov 2nd 2016 at 5:13:10 PM

It's possible that Stick was just born with senses as heightened as Matt's, without the need for a chemical spill.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#64678: Nov 2nd 2016 at 5:25:40 PM

Miller's comics tease the idea that the reason Stick can be awesome without chemicals is because all Matt's and Stick's superhuman senses are actually natural to humans. They're just buried very deep within our psyche.

Stick says something to the effect of "You think those chemicals gave you power? They merely opened the road for the dormant abilities every man has."

Sadly Stick dies like four pages later and no writer since has attempted to explain what the fuck he was going on about.

edited 2nd Nov '16 5:25:57 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#64679: Nov 2nd 2016 at 5:26:19 PM

I'll believe Marvel's going in that direction when I see them do so, and not before. I remember Joss wanted Age of Ultron to be "smaller-scale and more character-focused" compared to Avengers, and it turned out the opposite.

There's really not a lot you can do to top your entire cinematic universe fighting Thanos for the fate of all of existence.

Even getting back Galactus, he's just a dude who eats planets.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64680: Nov 2nd 2016 at 5:30:31 PM

Also, there are so many smaller scope ideas they could still use for movies: Clint getting Natasha to defect from the Red Room. Sam and Bucky being forced to go on a roadtrip. T'Challa having to judge a cat pageant. All the times Steve somehow ended up stealing a car.

edited 2nd Nov '16 6:01:13 PM by hollygoolightly

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#64681: Nov 2nd 2016 at 5:55:15 PM

Civil War was fairly small scale compared to Age of Ultron. The consequence of the climax was even just "one guy might die".

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64682: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:06:23 PM

Ant-Man's finale wasn't particularly big in scope either, no pun intended. At that point Pym Tech was gone, HYDRA got away with what they could salvage, and it was just the safety of one family in jeopardy.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64683: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:10:51 PM

I'd call it pulling a Ben Urich in this case, but yeah. Based on the tone of these shows, they'd have to work some overtime to justify nobody out of the main cast dying. Which I'm fine with, so long as they do the work.

They've said they regret killing off Ben Urich. They didn't think they were going to get the Spider-Man rights back, and as a prominent reporter for the Daily Bugle, Urich is predominately a Spider-character.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64684: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:19:06 PM

Oh, I believe they regret killing him. I sure as hell regret them killing him. But I can understand why it happened. The tone of these shows, Daredevil especially, is not one where you can get away with too many empty threats. With the Kingpin especially, the ability to back up his words is what makes him so formidable.

I wish that there'd been a way to still have Ben around, but his death does work in the script. It felt inevitable, not milked or staged. I can respect that.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#64685: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:45:35 PM

I know it'll never happen but part of me is still hoping Donald Glover's mystery character in Homecoming is Ben's nephew Phil.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64686: Nov 2nd 2016 at 11:16:29 PM

They certainly didn't go through the trouble of folding Claire's origin story into Daredevil Season 2 and Luke Cage just to kill her off at the first opportunity. It is much more likely that something happens to her mother. Parental figure have a really short live expectation in those Netflix shows.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64687: Nov 2nd 2016 at 11:30:22 PM

But that's exactly why I'm worried, because she's been a midwife of sorts to the Defenders. I hope they don't do it because fridging is such an obvious move for the team to unite behind. But it would suck. So please don't do it, Marvel/Netflix.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64688: Nov 2nd 2016 at 11:51:05 PM

I really don't think they're going to, even if she's playing a similar role to Coulson.

They probably want her around for future seasons of Luke Cage at the very least, and I'd be surprised if she didn't appear in Daredevil S3 either.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64689: Nov 3rd 2016 at 3:28:09 AM

Claire is way more of a character than Coulson ever was, and she has a role which is nearly impossible to replace. Coulson was basically the cheaper version of Nick Fury, being the face of Shield. But Claire is on her way to become the expert for treating people with powers who can't ask Shield for help.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64690: Nov 3rd 2016 at 4:18:10 AM

Yeah, I'm not seeing the comparison either, to be honest. Coulson is a presumably a character with his own profile now after three + seasons of development via Agents of Shield, but in Avengers he's pretty much a fanboy with a badge who dies so we can see how manipulative Fury is. Claire on the other hand is becoming a medical expert for supers, and she'll likely also be a middleman between people with problems and Luke/the Defenders. She's way more than an emotional tether for the main characters.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64691: Nov 3rd 2016 at 5:58:09 AM

[up] If I had to compare Claire with a movie character, it would be Black Widow, being a similar unexpected break-out character. As it stands, it is more likely that Claire will eventually get a show on her own than her getting killed. One thing for sure, she will keep turning up in all the Netflix shows.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#64692: Nov 3rd 2016 at 6:56:28 AM

For me it's not about whether or not she's "The Coulson" it's several decades of women getting fridged to motivate male characters. Obviously there's a huge history of it in comics, but it's still a pretty popular storytelling device in television as well. Just look at how many female characters were killed off last year. At least she's not a lesbian, then they'd definitely kill her off. Heck, if I didn't know about Punisher I'd probably be worried about Karen.

Honestly, I think there's about a 50/50 chance she bites it. And we get some nonsense from the showrunners about "well, it just wouldn't be realistic if someone important didn't die" (but the superhero characters are 'too important,' probably).

To be fair, there's also a decent chance they kill Foggy or Malcolm instead... but I don't want them to do that either.

Anyway, if I'm obnoxiously cynical about it there's a better chance I'll be pleasantly surprised instead.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64693: Nov 3rd 2016 at 7:08:37 AM

[up] One of the reasons I'm happy that Hogarth is sort of a jerk is that it greatly reduces her chances of dying. Bury Your Gays is usually for nice people (in that respect, it's probably better that Trish so far seems straight).

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#64694: Nov 3rd 2016 at 7:18:17 AM

I mean I guess, the difference is they seem to realize Claire's popularity and how well she went over with the fans. With Coulson was he seriously that popular before his death?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#64695: Nov 3rd 2016 at 7:21:52 AM

Coulson was probably never intended to stay dead given AOS was already in the works when it was out. Since he worked for SHIELD they had an easy out to bring him back too. Claire doesn't really have that.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#64696: Nov 3rd 2016 at 7:31:00 AM

Wanted to comment on something that I was reminded of by that mention of it being cool and unlikely if Donald Glover was playing Phil Urich, and was consequently connected to Ben Urich of the Netflix-verse:

So, I'm wondering how the Spider-Man movies are going to incorporate organized crime in the MCU, because that's an area where the plotlines of the Netflix shows rather intersect with those of Spider-Man.

Specifically, although really important to Daredevil, Kingpin is also a major Spidey villain, which means that either the MCU will reference him but not show him (slightly possible), cast someone else as a different take on Kingpin (I think unlikely), or similarly to Spectacular, cast Silvermane, Tombstone, and/or Mr. Negative instead (most likely). Think Silvermane probably has the best chance because Agent Carter already had a Manfredi gangster, who depending on how old you want Silvermane, would either be his father or an older brother/cousin, and Agent Carter is pretty much canon for the MCU.

And I do wonder about Urich himself because he's someone you would expect if casting Bugle Staff. I don't think the MCU would necessarily cast someone else as him. Would be nice if there was an Easter Egg of mentioning a Ben Urich memorial prize for journalism.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64697: Nov 3rd 2016 at 7:39:46 AM

[up][up][up] I never understood the fuss about Coulson, but I came in far too late to know how much of that is due to Avengers/Agents of SHIELD, and how much was because of his other appearances (how many were there, anyway? One or two?). Then again, nobody in The First Avenger particularly wowed me, either, and I love everyone from Steve to Peggy to Bucky and Howard after Winter Soldier and Agent Carter, so maybe I just generally take longer to warm up to characters.

edited 3rd Nov '16 7:40:14 AM by hollygoolightly

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64699: Nov 3rd 2016 at 8:02:30 AM

Can't we just all assume that all the main characters from the respective shows will turn up in the Defenders?


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