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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64601: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:51:35 PM

Yes.

Tony Stark has never had a No Kill Policy. If Wanda had tried to meet him head-on in the battlefield, she would have been reduced to a fine paste.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:52:55 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64602: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:51:49 PM

He probably wouldn't have shed any tears over shooting a terrorist, even if she was a girl. He's actively gone out of his way to do that before, although admittedly some Character Development has happened since then.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64603: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:52:02 PM

Fire one of those stun shots he used during his "good talk" with the HYDRA mooks at the start of Age of Ultron?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#64604: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:52:05 PM

@Wanda not being the first victim of the Hulk.

I always assumed that Wanda didn't just make Hulk angry, but trapped him in a nightmare illusion that made him see Johannesburg, all of its citizens and the Avengers as enemies trying to hurt him - which would explain why he went straight for a populated area (given that if he had the choice Hulk has chosen not to do so in the past) and why he seems to surprised to see everything when he snaps out of it.

That being the case, she could've just used the illusion to make him unable to see her and walked away (or watched, or whatever) without fear.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:53:54 PM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64605: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:53:55 PM

Wanda not being the first victim of the Hulk makes perfect sense when you remember that her brother, Quicksilver, was standing right there. He was the one who brought Banner to her in the first place.

He's her evac. She lit the fuse and disappeared at the speed of Pietro.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:54:33 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#64606: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:54:46 PM

I'm saying that, given her powerset, she didn't really need Quicksilver to escape in the first place. Chances are Hulk went straight for the city and forgot all about her. Deflecting attention away from yourself is Illusionist 101, especially when one's power is to directly cause characters to fall into nightmare visions - there's no reason for Wanda, herself, to be in the vision she gives Hulk.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:57:50 PM by KnownUnknown

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64607: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:58:42 PM

Re: Tony shooting a person - I should have clarified. I meant a person, not in a tank, not in armour. I know he blasts the HYDRA mooks, but that was a stun shot, and he blasted Falcon, but at that point he was pissed off. But non-emotionally, if Wanda stands before him, just as herself, no suit, no transport, no visible weapon, would he shoot to kill? Because that would surprise me.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64608: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:59:39 PM

[up][up][up]The speed of Pietro is somewhere faster than a train but slower than Quinjet bullets.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:59:45 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#64609: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:00:58 PM

[up][up] If she made an aggressive move, probably. He's offed a ton of people who didn't have any armor in his own series.

edited 1st Nov '16 1:02:26 PM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64610: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:01:51 PM

Tony kills a lot of powered-but-armorless people in Iron Man 3. Remember that time he fired his Unibeam through Savin's chest?

Tony does not have a No-Kill Policy.

edited 1st Nov '16 1:02:02 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64611: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:02:39 PM

I don't think Wanda's intent for the Hulk was 'go smash Johannesburg!', but I think she had to know collateral damage was a possibility with the goddamn Hulk. She's culpable, although I don't know if she's necessarily a murderer, and wow, I've said this exact thing before, haven't I? Maybe Adric is right.

Johannesburg is yet another object lesson in why Banner is probably right when he keeps telling everyone trying to control the Hulk is a bad idea.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#64612: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:02:46 PM

On the other hand, Avengers 2 does establish him using stun rounds against mooks that are aggressive but not really that dangerous, which is not something he's ever cared about in his own series. I took it as him developing his stance to the job and trying to be less indiscriminately destructive.

But Wanda, with the superpowers and the "violently" obsessed with vengeance thing, does not likely apply to that category.

edited 1st Nov '16 1:04:34 PM by KnownUnknown

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64613: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:04:26 PM

[up][up][up] I don't, because I haven't seen the Iron Man sequels yet. In the Avengers movies, a lot of fuss is made about him not being a soldier, and killing someone whose face you can actually see is probably a lot more difficult than killing someone who is hidden inside a tank or even a suit.

edited 1st Nov '16 1:05:29 PM by hollygoolightly

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64614: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:06:06 PM

[up][up] Not necessarily. Even as early as Iron Man 1, he relies on knocking down terrorists with repulsors and manhandles Bakaar before leaving his fate to the people of Gulmira. It's not clear if the shoulder-guns he uses to neutralize the hostage-takers are lethal.

But when the tank hits him, he straight up murders the sonovabitch. Tony meets force with force. He is neither Batman nor the Punisher. He uses the amount of force he feels is necessary to do the job.

If he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that his target is not a threat to them, he goes for nonlethals. If he feels legitimately threatened in any way, he'll take the killshot. Whatever gets the job done.

edited 1st Nov '16 1:07:33 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#64615: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:06:53 PM

[up][up] Iron Man 1 has him drop down into a terrorist attack on a city and basically slaughter everyone with a weapon - the tank missile being the final stroke. In 2 he doesn't fight too many human opponents (with blowing up Vanko seeming more like a last resort), but 3 has him blatantly say to a bunch of faceless mooks "you're all going to die the moment I have the ability to kill you" and then effortlessly do so moments later.

[up] I always assumed the repulsors were lethal to un-gifted, un-armored opponents - given that they launch people with enough force to make them do serious damage to stone walls - unless stated otherwise, and that Bakaar goes spared because he's a named "lieutenant" character and thus gets a slightly more karmic end than the mooks (that is, thrown to the people he was harming to be dealt with). Which - to be fair - is ultimately why if faced with Wanda, Tony probably wouldn't shoot.

edited 1st Nov '16 1:13:54 PM by KnownUnknown

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64616: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:08:56 PM

Interesting. The suit definitely would give him an advantage, then. Wanda would have to get him inside a building, like Cap and Bucky.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64617: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:12:37 PM

Her best chance was in South Africa, honestly. She would need to get him into melee range to mind-whammy him in order to pull it off, which is exactly why South Africa was the best opportunity. Not that she knew, but it was the only time a suited Iron Man would ever be vulnerable to it.

In a vacuum, Wanda mind-whammies Tony to keep him from shooting a Tank Missile in her face, so J.A.R.V.I.S. or F.R.I.D.A.Y. shoots a Tank Missile in her face instead.

In South Africa, J.A.R.V.I.S. had already "died" and F.R.I.D.A.Y. hadn't come along yet. He didn't have a suit AI to back him up if she seized his mind. But she still couldn't go for it, because range and velocity was an issue. Once he and Ultron started in on each other, she could neither catch up to Tony by jogging nor reach him in the sky.

Which is precisely why Wanda engaging him in any way was not part of the plan, and her job was simply to do away with the other Avengers before setting off the Hulk - leaving Tony to deal with that instead of pursuing Ultron.

edited 1st Nov '16 1:14:25 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64618: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:21:22 PM

That does make sense. But please, in case I'm taking a side by saying this, nobody try convince me that it doesn't make sense, because I pretty much haven't read most of the Wanda discussion since the last time we had it.

If the Avengers dressed up as Disney characters for Halloween, who would they choose, in your opinion?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#64619: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:22:06 PM

Captain America as Elsa.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#64620: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:23:33 PM

Probably why Quicksilver was like 'why don't we just kill him'

'Seriously, he got out of his armor. Its like he's ungiftwrapped just for us. We're not going to get a better chance, Wanda. Wanda, the whole slow burn to destroying himself is good in theory but he's right there out of his armor.'

-dies- 'I blame you, Wanda'

edited 1st Nov '16 1:23:39 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64621: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:26:39 PM

Yeah. First time I watched that, I thought her hesitance was cold feet after the vision she gave Tony. I thought she could see the visions and was like, "Wait, his worst fear is not being able to stop aliens from destroying our planet and killing us all? ...I might be on the wrong side of this."

But nope. Just classic Villain Ball self-sabotage.

If the Avengers dressed up as Disney characters for Halloween, who would they choose, in your opinion?

They would dress as each other. Because they are Disney characters. tongue

Tony and Thor would both be dressed as Cap and then they'd be all, "Hmph! One of us is going to have to change!"

edited 1st Nov '16 1:27:56 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#64622: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:33:21 PM

She might have been bullshitting to be honest.

The vision did shake her up, but she didn't want to worry Pietro (since he'd be baffled about why she's suddenly less violent towards him or something), so she half lied (because she was right that he'd cause a problem himself, though as we've discussed before, Ultron was not something anyone would have been ready for).

She figured there was nothing she could do to him that would be worse then what he'd do to himself.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#64623: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:37:39 PM

As an aside, I'd like to take a moment to really appreciate this imagery from the movie. With FOX holding the character's rights, we may never get this close to an MCU Doom. But that moment was perfectly Doom.

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Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64624: Nov 1st 2016 at 1:45:07 PM

Wanda would've gone as Sally from The Nightmare Before Christmas, because of course she would. And I bet Natasha would've made a killer Maleficent. Bruce Banner as Aladdin, the Hulk as Flounder. Tony could modify one of his suits and go as Baymax.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#64625: Nov 1st 2016 at 2:14:05 PM

Am I the only one who sees Tony going as either Guyver or a Kamen Rider?


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