TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#64576: Nov 1st 2016 at 10:53:20 AM

[up] You have too much free time.

Anyway let's check.

Hey NSA guys is Tobias on any watchlists ?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64577: Nov 1st 2016 at 10:54:11 AM

I'm uneducated white trash; I don't like mouthing off on things without checking to make sure that what I'm saying is actually a thing and not just something I heard 'round the water cooler.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#64578: Nov 1st 2016 at 10:57:59 AM

[up] Yeah that excuse really isn't good enough for them.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64579: Nov 1st 2016 at 11:11:30 AM

And on the topic of research: part of the reason it's hard to buy into Wanda being treated like a child is that it's unclear whether or not she's been Dawson Cast. Elizabeth Olsen was 26 when Age of Ultron came out. Her twin brother, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, was 25. So they're right up next to each other in age, but that age is mid-twenties.

But in Civil War, everyone treats her like a child. Both Steve and Tony are condescending in their handling of her, acting like bickering parents fighting over custody, but it's unclear if we're meant to derive that it's because she's actually super-young or if they're just talking down to her because they're assholes caught up in their self-righteousness.

edited 1st Nov '16 11:12:49 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64580: Nov 1st 2016 at 11:22:30 AM

I think someone said in one interview that Wanda isn't quite as young as it seems to be from the way the other Avengers act, but they have the tendency to see her as young because it is easier for them to deal with her power when they see her as someone they need to protect. Though her room clearly has a teenager vibe which is entirely intentional - honestly, the moment the camera takes in the room is one of the best moments in the movie, because it says so much about Wanda just through the visuals. It says that she is still grieving for Pietro, that she likes music, but above all that she feels safe with the Avengers, maybe for the first time since her parents died. Which is why it kind of breaks my heart when her home suddenly turns into a prison.

Wanda is a very vulnerable character, but also very volatile, and not just because of her power, but also because there is so much anger in her.

edited 1st Nov '16 11:23:14 AM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#64581: Nov 1st 2016 at 11:23:31 AM

Do they ever mention how long ago the conflict in Sokovia was? The one before Ultron.

Because they were only ten when the Starktech bomb exploded their life.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64582: Nov 1st 2016 at 11:24:35 AM

[up] Based on what Maria Hill says Sokovia was apparently a constant war zone since it was unlucky enough to be on the wrong spot of the map.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#64583: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:08:03 PM

I don't get this idea that Wanda wouldn't be able to defeat Iron Man one on one. War Machine was able to take her out because her back was turned, but in fight just between Tony and Wanda, Wanda would kick his ass. If she couldn't mind whammy him through his helmet (and who says she can't?), she can definitely use her telekinesis to immobilize and tear his suit apart. Even if he was attacking, she had the clear advantage.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64584: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:10:13 PM

I don't think it's a clear advantage until she gets a better handle on her powers. Because while she's holding him steady, who's to say he's not also shooting lasers and rockets and plain 'ol bullets at her?

Comic book Scarlet Witch was crazy powerful, but I don't know that MCU Wanda is there yet.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#64585: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:13:52 PM

She created a bubble around an explosion. Who's to say that she can't create another bubble?

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64586: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:16:40 PM

I'm not saying she couldn't, but could she do it in time? Could she do it while still holding Iron Man in place and ripping off his armour? If the writers say she could, then she could, but I'm just saying that not having that control is part of how they make sure she's only ever as strong as the plot demands. She could win, she does theoretically have more power, but it's not a clear advantage quite yet. It's a...fuzzy, Bigfoot photo kind of advantage.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:26:35 PM by Unsung

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64587: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:19:27 PM

If Wanda has enough power to bury the Vision underground, I feel she can take Tony with a reasonable amount of success.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64589: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:22:26 PM

Wanda was turning Vision's own powerset against him. He can adjust his density. She manipulated that to make him super-dense. Gravity did the rest.

There's no disputing that she's tough, but I highly doubt she's on the Thor/Hulk/Iron Man level. She would have been carrying the Airport battle if she was.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:23:33 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64590: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:23:53 PM

I couldn't tell that was happening onscreen.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64591: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:28:40 PM

I have to say that I didn't view Steve's treatment of Wanda as condescending. In Lagos, he behaves like he's her coach (which Natasha does as well - and it's admittedly what they both are in that scene) and when they talk in her room, he treats her like a somewhat younger relative. He's mindful of her grief - we see that when he orders Ross (Secretary edition) to stop the Sokovia footage - but he mostly comes across as someone who cares about Wanda. The one time I felt that slipped into patronizing when he called her "just a kid" while fighting with Tony.

Tony on the other hand seems rather distant to her, but that seemed partly because he felt he had to act strict to be convincing to the UN and Ross. His main mistake was not telling Wanda that he was putting her under house arrest, and that part did seem rather patronizing again, and it could be read as fear of her powers. Generally, though, I think that aspect doesn't come across as much as the writers may have intended, especially because the Wanda we've seen in Ao U came across as somewhat immature (not least presumably through the trauma she and Pietro experienced).

edited 1st Nov '16 12:29:05 PM by hollygoolightly

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#64592: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:29:49 PM

She's a glass cannon.

In a setting that has several people who are tough as they are powerful.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64593: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:30:08 PM

Let's summon up Wanda's abilities: She can use the mind-whammy...but only if she is close to the person in question, like, standing directly behind him or her. She can do the whole "sneak behind said person" thing, though.

She can fly, but considering that she needs to put her hands down and use them as boosters to do so, she is most likely not able to do her hand-wavy stuff while in the air.

She can move stuff which her mind, which is pretty much the most straightforward ability. Even a person, but then, she only gave Cap a boost so that he could do the jump he wanted to do, I doubt that she could counteract the boosters of Iron Man enough to get him out of the air. She can push a person off another person, though.

And she can change the density of vision.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64594: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:30:50 PM

It's pretty clear. She hits him with her hex by whipping her hands away from the energy sphere in the center, which first causes him to go intangible so Hawkeye falls through. Then she starts pushing her hands back towards the center orb, increasing his density - with gravity's effect on him increasing as her hands get closer and closer to the energy. She's pretty blatantly taken control of his density manipulation.

Also of note: much like Wanda chucking cars at Tony, the Vision example is held back by the fact that Vision was actively unwilling to fight her and didn't want to harm her. Or was I the only one who noticed that he was entirely capable of lasering her face off and never did?

Wanda is quite formidable against foes unwilling to punch back.

edited 1st Nov '16 12:32:43 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#64595: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:33:06 PM

While I doubt that Vision would have been willing to blast Wanda (because she would have been a stain on the floor if he had), it's also quite possible that she was shutting down his laser with her powers. If she was already overriding his density power, there's no real reason to think she couldn't do the same with his energy blast power.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#64596: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:34:27 PM

Vision could probably solo pretty much everyone on Team Cap if he were attempting to kill or wound them. I think that's why he pretty much vanishes from the fight and only returns at the end to take out Giant-Man and Falcon. If you notice, he doesn't really do much during the actual brawl.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#64597: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:36:42 PM

She would have been carrying the Airport battle if she was.
But that was against multiple opponents. Again: on a one-on-one battle, I think she could take Tony.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64598: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:45:56 PM

I think it depends on the circumstances? In the airport fight, everyone except T'Challa was at least trying to hold back. I think Wanda in full control of her powers would be able to take on Tony if she could keep him from blasting her away (and I'd say he'd hesitate to use the blast against a person if he's not totally pissed off). Much the same way, Bucky could probably leave Spidey as a smear on the pavement if he fought as ruthless as the Winter Soldier. And Vision could blast them all to oblivion if he cared to do so.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64599: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:46:38 PM

That it was against multiple opponents is the reason she did as well as she did. Wanda's not a Glass Cannon. She's a Squishy Wizard. She can provide a wide variety of supporting assistance to her side and has a bit of offensive capability in her own right, but she's sorely lacking on the defensive side. It was noted earlier that she contained an explosion, but she couldn't hold it long - and that was after she started training as an Avenger. She's not that tough, and was significantly less formidable in South Africa.

In AOU, trying to directly engage Tony while he's suited up would have been tantamount to suicide. Again: notice how she never even attempts it? Twice, she fights the Avengers and the only time she even dares target the one person she actually has a grudge against is when his suit is safely upstairs where it can't effortlessly murder her.

She and Pietro talk a big game about how they want to stick it to Stark but they spend both battles picking on other Avengers instead. He can fly, he's insulated by a titanium alloy, and he has a seemingly endless supply of explosive weapons capable of rendering a person into a fine paste on his person. Remember Bucky's arm? Wanda doesn't want that to be her face. So long as he's suited up, he is safely beyond their reach.

Which brings us right back to, "Why set the Hulk loose?" Because they needed something to keep Tony busy that would actually be able to do more than mildly aggravate him before he hits Mach 1.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#64600: Nov 1st 2016 at 12:48:47 PM

[up] The question is though, would Tony do that if he is of sound mind? Blasting a person away, even if it is an enemy?


Total posts: 186,763
Top