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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#64051: Oct 22nd 2016 at 8:09:30 AM

Monica is definitely ridiculously overpowered, but pretty much across the board, MCU characters tend to be weaker than their comic counterparts.

We were just discussing this not too long ago when Feige discussed Doctor Strange's reputation for being a Story Breaker and how they'd cleverly set it up so he can be threatened or defeated in Infinity War without it looking ridiculously contrived.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#64052: Oct 22nd 2016 at 8:55:07 AM

A recent Ultimates comic had her lamenting that she should have turned into light, gone in through Thanos's eyes, and exploded his brain in a recent battle.
As a later issue demonstrated, though, that wouldn't have worked because Thanos's brain is not a nice place to be.

That's generally what you do with OP characters: you have them face other OP characters and have them, in some way, cancel each other out.

edited 22nd Oct '16 8:55:53 AM by alliterator

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#64053: Oct 22nd 2016 at 9:06:57 AM

You could perhaps limit her light form to be effectively teleporting; as in. she's not conscious during her light form.

She can control the electromagnetic spectrum? Can she suck the gamma radiation out of the Hulk?

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#64054: Oct 22nd 2016 at 9:21:56 AM

As a later issue demonstrated, though, that wouldn't have worked because Thanos's brain is not a nice place to be.
A dumb explanation. Also redundant since Thanos, being a cosmic "mutant" of sorts, has learned to manipulate the energies inside his own body via meditation and can now do so at the drop of a hat.

edited 22nd Oct '16 9:22:13 AM by nervmeister

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64055: Oct 22nd 2016 at 9:43:39 AM

I can honestly say that I never want to see anyone materializing himself in another person's body in the MCU. That is just gross.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#64056: Oct 22nd 2016 at 9:46:59 AM

[up]Would've made for a better way to defeat Ultron, had he been portrayed as the impenetrable robot he should've been.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#64057: Oct 22nd 2016 at 10:09:24 AM

[up][up][up] Exactly. "Have them fight other OP characters" doesn't really work out that well because characters are rarely OP in ways that actually counter each other. Instead, they usually wind up in the same position they're in when they fight non-OP characters: making up some stupid bullshit for why the thing wouldn't work.

Like, if you pit Magneto against Deadpool, then Deadpool will happen to have a special non-magnetic disabler ray that nullifies Magneto's powers or something. This becomes no less stupid if you have Iron Man shooting the anti-magnetism ray.

Some powersets turn characters into a walking Bullshit Magnet, and Monica's got one of them.

edited 22nd Oct '16 10:09:54 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#64058: Oct 22nd 2016 at 10:26:44 AM

Like, if you pit Magneto against Deadpool, then Deadpool will happen to have a special non-magnetic disabler ray that nullifies Magneto's powers or something.
But Deadpool isn't OP. Deadpool basically has one power and that's his healing factor.

If you want to say that any fight between any two characters can be solved through bullshit, I would agree with you. But that's a different argument.

edited 22nd Oct '16 10:27:08 AM by alliterator

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#64059: Oct 22nd 2016 at 10:41:48 AM

This has become relevant yet again.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64061: Oct 22nd 2016 at 10:45:43 AM

Yeah, everyone knows fiction is fiction.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#64062: Oct 22nd 2016 at 10:52:11 AM

Exactly what I always say. That's the reason why I usually don't do "who would win" discussions, unless it is a "who would win in this particular situation" one...but that is not fun to discuss because I care who would win, but because than I can consider what each hero would use to his or her advantage. IE Ironman is pretty powerful....in tight space, though, not so much, because this makes it way easier for other heroes to damage his armour. Hawkeye can actually do a lot of damage from afar, but in hand to hand combat he would loose against every single one of the Avengers. Aso.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#64063: Oct 22nd 2016 at 10:55:24 AM

I enjoy "who would win?" discussions, but only with character with at least vaguely defined power levels (so Superman can't be included in any of these discussions, ever) and accounting the different scenarios and strategies they might employ.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#64064: Oct 22nd 2016 at 11:11:56 AM

Anybody can beat anybody for the sake of a plot so I don't know why people get so invested in these debates. If the filmmaker needs Captain America to beat up Galactus for plot purposes it'll happen.

edited 22nd Oct '16 11:12:20 AM by comicwriter

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64065: Oct 22nd 2016 at 11:15:05 AM

This wasn't about versus debates, but the issue of Monica's powers removing drama if she were written intelligently. Or at least it shouldn't have devolved into that after you reminded everyone that the MCU made everyone weaker already.

edited 22nd Oct '16 11:15:43 AM by VeryMelon

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#64066: Oct 22nd 2016 at 11:18:15 AM

If the filmmaker needs Captain America to beat up Galactus for plot purposes it'll happen.
Well, I mean, all he needs is to find the Ultimate Nullifier. That's how Reed Richards defeated him in the first place.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#64067: Oct 22nd 2016 at 11:21:30 AM

[up]Well first the rights need to lapse from Fox... tongue

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#64068: Oct 22nd 2016 at 11:22:44 AM

Re: Monica. They're under no obligation to stick to the comics' power ratio - if they wanted to introduce Monica (which they probably won't, but speaking hypothetically here), they could easily just nerf her. It's already an adaptation, and adaptations are almost invariably unfaithful to one degree or another.

Plus, they've said that Carol will be the most powerful MCU hero to date when she gets her introduction, so it's not like they're shying away from the idea of an incredibly powerful Captain Marvel.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#64069: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:12:18 PM

Plus, they've said that Carol will be the most powerful MCU hero to date when she gets her introduction, so it's not like they're shying away from the idea of an incredibly powerful Captain Marvel.
Well, assuming Doc Strange still isn't done with his training by the time she debuts, then I could see it being the case.

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:14:15 PM by nervmeister

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#64070: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:38:10 PM

Yeah, this:

This wasn't about versus debates, but the issue of Monica's powers removing drama if she were written intelligently.

Is why Stan Lee's rant - though very accurate and important to other discussions - isn't really relevant here. In fact, it highlights the problem: the winner of a fight is due to the writer, and as such it's the writers responsibility to utilitze the characters such that their successes or losses make sense and work with their power set.

As a writer you can have Spider-Man beat Thanos if you really want to, but if you're doing it you have to make it work. If a character loses simply because they never remember to use their powers effectively, that cheapens those powers and makes them look like an idiot - and, worse, make is obvious that they're only losing because the writers say so.

I do, however, agree that the easiest solution is to simply tone down her powers in the adaptation. Even if she's still has all those light-based powers, streamline it so that it's applications are less numerous.

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:40:27 PM by KnownUnknown

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#64071: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:35:38 PM

[up] Regarding Spider-man beating Thanos. Happened just as you said.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#64072: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:49:14 PM

[up] Infinity War needs the Thanos copter.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#64073: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:51:35 PM

Forget Infinity War, the MCU needs a whole movie dedicated to Thanos and the Thanoscopter.

edited 22nd Oct '16 1:51:55 PM by eligram

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#64074: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:52:35 PM

"Daahhhh, this is Thanos the Mad Titan here, your Eye of Chaos in the starry heavens with your up-to-the-minute galactic traffic report. As usual for your drive home, things are a bit backed up around the galactic core..."

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#64075: Oct 22nd 2016 at 2:08:54 PM

Bring in Quake so we can get our "Oops! I let go of the Cube!" moment.


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