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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

123tbones Since: Aug, 2015
#63976: Oct 21st 2016 at 7:59:07 AM

[up] I also remember early Daisy models having darker skin tone than Peach's.

But on the subject of Doctor Strange, I'm hoping the do some future movies that involves meeting the Avengers in their Silver Age form just for fun.

edited 21st Oct '16 7:59:49 AM by 123tbones

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63977: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:07:05 AM

In the case of Monica Rambeau the issue is kind of that the character changed her alias so often (I think her current one is Spectrum) that she is mostly simply known as Monica Rambeau to avoid confusion. I just speculated that they might put her into one of the TV shows at one point because her abilities are very TV friendly (in: It is pretty easy to do light effects), but the more I think about it, the ideal placement for her would be in a Namor movie if Marvel ever ends up in the position to do Namor in the first place. Then they could re-establish her character as Spectrum (or whatever), perhaps to a degree that she eventually gets her own Spin-off movie.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63978: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:07:55 AM

[up][up][up]Ah, I get it. But shouldn't the enhanced physicals and mental/sensory attributes alone provide enough irony?

[up]Yeah. I want to see her get the big budget treatment because her power set allows for quite a bit of creativity. And it would be an interesting nod if they had her shift into a high-temp plasma form in order to combat Namor.

edited 21st Oct '16 8:15:16 AM by nervmeister

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#63979: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:12:31 AM

[up][up] The sad thing is that the first two name changes were because of Genis-Vell. He first took Captain Marvel and she agreed that he had more right to it being the test tube baby of the original. So she switched to Photon. And then later Genis-Vell switched to Photon too.

Nobody likes Genis-Vell but Monica dislikes him that little bit extra.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#63980: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:25:43 AM

Ah, I get it. But shouldn't the enhanced physicals and mental/sensory attributes alone provide enough irony?
I don't understand. Why would they provide irony?

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63981: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:27:04 AM

[up]Wouldn't the "Aryan ideal" be physical and mental superiority, with blond hair and blue eyes being more the icing on the cake instead of the most important thing?

edited 21st Oct '16 8:28:11 AM by nervmeister

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#63982: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:32:08 AM

The "Aryan ideal" went part and parcel with blond hair and blue eyes, though. When someone says "the Aryan ideal," that's pretty much what they are talking about: pretty people with blond hair and blue eyes.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#63983: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:53:24 AM

[up][up] People who subscribed to this whole idea of a hierarchy between races thought that the guys on top - i.e. the Aryans - were the strongest, fittest, most intelligent, and blonde and blue-eyed because it's rare and naturally, because that combination occured in the environment where the people who invented the whole nonsense lived. Can't have a superior race who is dark-skinned and brown-eyed, when that's not what the people around you look like.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63984: Oct 21st 2016 at 8:53:42 AM

[up][up]Weird, but okay. -_-

edited 21st Oct '16 8:53:53 AM by nervmeister

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#63985: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:02:51 AM

I see that someone has never seen Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS.

...did I say that out loud?

edited 21st Oct '16 9:03:08 AM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#63986: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:07:06 AM

You did.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63987: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:08:50 AM

It looks like I missed a very bizarre tangent....

As for the Mar-Vell thing I wouldn't be surprised if just for the sake of coherence, they deleted his role entirely.

Part of the problem with the origin as it stands has less to do with sexism and more to do with the reality of making a 2 hour movie. The whole point of her taking his name in the comics is because they were lovers and she wanted to honor his memory by using his name and symbol. Fair enough, but it was a relationship that unfolded across years worth of stories, and she didn't take up his name until decades after he was already dead.

How do you accomplish that in a 2 hour movie? You either end up with another Sharon Carter/Hope Van Dyne situation where the relationship is hilariously rushed and comes out of fucking nowhere (moreso the latter) or you sideline Carol in her own movie just so you can build up her romance with the guy who is gonna die and pass his powers onto her.

edited 21st Oct '16 9:10:07 AM by comicwriter

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63988: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:11:01 AM

[up][up][up]Well I have heard of it, along with something called "Oversexed Rug-suckers From Mars'', if that helps.

edited 21st Oct '16 9:11:24 AM by nervmeister

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#63989: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:15:33 AM

The whole point of her taking his name in the comics is because they were lovers and she wanted to honor his memory by using his name and symbol.
Uh, no, they were never lovers. In fact, Mar-Vell had a wife at the time he wanted to get back to when he met Carol Danvers — the whole thing was a subversion of the Loves My Alter Ego trope, since Carol liked Mar-Vell, but Mar-Vell was already married. Now, they were friends, which is why she wanted to honor his memory.

edited 21st Oct '16 9:16:30 AM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#63990: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:17:32 AM

She made out with his ghost a little bit when he was resurrected by the Phoenix but in fairness space is crazy.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63991: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:18:49 AM

I know I have a habit of kissing my friends on the mouth. Birthday parties were always awkward.

edited 21st Oct '16 9:27:34 AM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63992: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:20:55 AM

Well, kind of. Germans back then already were more often brunette than actually blonde. It's part of the package when you life in the middle of Europe, lots of genetic influence. The whole thing with the blonde hair and blue eyes goes back to Hitler's obsession with Wagner, and the whole "Germanic hero" ideal. Notable neither he nor his closest followers actually fit the description.

The joke here is to turn Captain America in said ideal and then let him punch Hitler in the face. It is visually saying "a truly superior being wouldn't buy into your nonsense".

edited 21st Oct '16 9:22:22 AM by Swanpride

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63993: Oct 21st 2016 at 9:21:20 AM

On the subject of cosmic Marvel heroes, none of you have chimed in yet about my potentially brilliant ideas for Adam Warlock.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#63996: Oct 21st 2016 at 10:30:42 AM

I'm fine with having such important characters show up for one second. The nods, sly references, and general interconnectivity is what made the MCU such a distinct brand in the first place.

Was it necessary to have Captain America's shield in Tony Stark's workshop way back when? No. But it was cool and helped make the universe feel connected.

The continuous reluctance to acknowledge the shows feels like Marvel's becoming self-conscious about their shared universe. It was a risky experiment that paid off in spades but now that it's working, they're starting to drift back towards standardized filmmaking.

Doing something like, say, two and a half seconds of Captain America watching a news report of Jessica Jones being arrested while he ponders the latest plot development in his movie wouldn't be this obnoxious, forced, unwelcome irritant. It would be exactly the kind of Continuity Nod that the entire brand is built upon.

edited 21st Oct '16 10:35:30 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63997: Oct 21st 2016 at 10:45:20 AM

The non-connectivity isn't really a problem to me, it's fine.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#63998: Oct 21st 2016 at 10:49:22 AM

[up] + 6: The Germans didn't invent the Aryan "ideal" - that was this charming gentleman. The Nazis certainly pushed the idea the furthest, but there were a lot of Europeans (and US Americans) who bought into it to various degrees. It was simply a very good tool to excuse imperialist politics, and other sorts of social injustice in the 19th and early 20th century.

Jarring switch in topics: Is Adam Warlock necessary to do the Infinity Gauntlet? I know that he plays an important role in the comic, but it seems weird to sort of introduce him out of left field.

edited 21st Oct '16 10:51:12 AM by hollygoolightly

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#64000: Oct 21st 2016 at 10:59:03 AM

[up]My guess it that it will stand in for the 'heart-shaped herb'.

[up][up]Soul Stone aside, Adam and Thanos do have a important history together. "Slattering" him would arguably be worse than making Ultron a one-off Iron Man villain.

edited 21st Oct '16 11:05:30 AM by nervmeister


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