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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#63876: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:33:41 AM

That's pretty much my reasoning for not liking the ship. It's a little tiring when it feels like every female character ends up being a love interest. (Plus, I didn't see any chemistry.)

Could also be because I'm just tired of romance in general, though.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63877: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:38:31 AM

I don't care either way, but if they put them in a relationship, they should make it believable. Peter Quill is a womanizer and Gamora is well aware of this. I just don't see her falling for him easily.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#63878: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:54:11 AM

Peter should save himself for twenty years later when Marvel gets the X-Men rights back and he meets Kitty Pryde.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63879: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:56:16 AM

Glad to hear the visuals and performances in Strange are top notch. I could tell the "This is gonna be formulaic" thing from the trailers though. Outside of not doing origin stories anymore I'm really not sure how much of a work around there is for that at this point.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63880: Oct 20th 2016 at 8:03:24 AM

[up][up]But seriously, is reinventing Adam Warlock to be a bigoted Jerk with a Heart of Gold in order to keep his personality from being a carbon copy of Vision's a good idea?

Deepening the Irony even further, his Evil Twin, Magus, could be a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing.

edited 20th Oct '16 8:08:00 AM by nervmeister

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#63881: Oct 20th 2016 at 9:59:06 AM

I feel like Strange should be the last origin story for the foreseeable future. Origins are always so constrained by what's got to be packed into the run time.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63882: Oct 20th 2016 at 10:04:58 AM

I guess Captain Marvel will get one, but after that, well, there is no reason to do another one anytime soon...at least not until Marvel has Namor freed from legal limbo. And I actually won't do one for him either, I would introduce him as an antagonist and the let him switch sides.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63883: Oct 20th 2016 at 10:11:47 AM

[up][up]They've confirmed Captain Marvel will be an origin story.

Black Panther isn't gonna be one by virtue of Civil War already being an origin.

edited 20th Oct '16 10:32:36 AM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#63884: Oct 20th 2016 at 10:48:14 AM

No, it wasn't. It explained nothing about where the Black Panther's abilities come from. Just that Wakanda is a thing and its new king likes cats.

But the thing of BP is that he doesn't need an origin, because he didn't get his powers in a freak accident or spend years mastering an obscure art in a hidden monastery or something. They're just part of his heritage. You can work that into a movie without it being an origin movie.

edited 20th Oct '16 10:48:50 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#63885: Oct 20th 2016 at 10:53:57 AM

Black Panther Origins: T'Challa's Birthday

"Hey T'Challa, you're of age. Here's a sweet outfit and the heart-shaped herb."
"..."
"And a cake"
"Yay!"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63886: Oct 20th 2016 at 10:55:58 AM

No, it wasn't.

That was pretty much exactly what Feige said so yes, for all intents and purposes, Civil War got that out of the way. They still have to do his villains and supporting cast but he's already going into it as an established character.

[up]Perfect.

edited 20th Oct '16 10:56:10 AM by comicwriter

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#63887: Oct 20th 2016 at 11:43:00 AM

I'm sure they'll talk about his origins a bit, but it won't dominate the movie like most origin stories.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#63890: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:00:16 PM

They mentioned that they'll go into the history of the Black Panther a bit. It did sound like we might even see earlier panthers (flashback to T'Chaka's active warrior/protector years perhaps?).

We also don't really know how his powers actually work yet. We got a hint that his ring can do funky stuff with metal, but that's it.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#63891: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:06:11 PM

Does Carol need an origin story? Couldn't you have those bits in flashbacks?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#63892: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:10:18 PM

It's likely to be more of an origin story for Wakanda itself than for T'Challa. We already know his general background as a prince and he's already become the hero. No flashback to Afghanistan or the Super Serum or anything, but we will probably get a glimpse of his childhood interspersed throughout scenes of the various conflicts within Wakanda such as the Jabari purges and the civil warring that brought back the Dora Milaje. As well as the current-day struggles of being a king, struggles that Thor still has yet to deal with.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#63893: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:22:39 PM

Carol absolutely needs an origin. Her powers and origin are nowhere near as well-known as the Hulk's or as easily simplified as T'Challa's. Especially since we're skipping over the character she's a Legacy of and will thus need a new explanation for her powerset.

Sure, maybe there could be twenty seconds of flashbacks with her interacting with a blue alien man and then he dies and BAM there's powers, but I don't think that will explain much to anybody's benefit.

Characters like Batman or Spider-Man could potentially get away with twenty seconds of seeing loved ones get shot because everyone's heard that story a million times anyway. This is Carol's live-action debut. There's some shit that needs to be told.

edited 20th Oct '16 12:24:15 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63894: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:25:10 PM

You kinda have to do an origin for Captain Marvel because if not and you just pull a Remember the New Guy?, it'd look even more jarring than the whole "Magic just suddenly exists now." At least with that they're clearly going with the idea that the Ancient One and her followers kept themselves hidden and don't interfere with Avengers stuff.

That's way harder with Captain Marvel.

edited 20th Oct '16 12:28:44 PM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#63895: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:26:57 PM

Magic has existed since Thor. Even if you hate the "Magic and science are the same" concept, Loki is a f*cking illusionist spellcaster.

edited 20th Oct '16 12:27:20 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#63896: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:27:19 PM

I think Carol presents some real problems in terms of being an obvious Remember the New Guy?, not in terms of powers, but because you'd kind of expect her to have previously appeared as like a military friend of colleague of Sam or Rhodey or a SHIELD agent. Since she didn't, it's kind of awkward to later on retroactively insert her into one of those roles.

edited 20th Oct '16 12:28:06 PM by Hodor2

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63897: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:28:18 PM

[up]Right. It's like "We need firepowe to round up Team Cap? Well I know this gal in the Air Force that can lift up buildings, fly, and shoot lasers from her hands. But she probably couldn't help with something like this..."

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63898: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:28:31 PM

I actually don't think that doing an origin story is in itself problematic. You more run into problems when it comes to the expectation of the audience, which kind of want to see some kind of fight in the end but is also tired of seeing the same kind of fight. Mixing that up is the real problem here, though Doctor Strange naturally has a lot of possibilities there. What is actually the problem with Doctor Strange specifically is that Goyer basically lifted his origin story for Batman Returns, so no matter what it will look like something we have seen before.

And Captain Marvel simply deserves to turn up first in her own movie instead having her first appearance be a sideshow to a bunch of male characters.

edited 20th Oct '16 12:30:14 PM by Swanpride

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#63899: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:32:02 PM

[up][up]

That's true. I actually meant though that I think Carol's origin story in general presents problems because the pre-powered Captain Danvers probably should have appeared or been referenced in an earlier film.

edited 20th Oct '16 12:32:24 PM by Hodor2

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63900: Oct 20th 2016 at 12:32:32 PM

Yeah, Captain Marvel can and should be an origin story. I'm not a fan of spending lots of time retelling origin stories, but this isn't one we've seen on the big screen yet, unlike most of the Justice League. I'd say Captain Marvel could be like Iron Man, where her origin is maybe the first third of the movie or so and then the rest is more of a Year One adventure. As opposed to Doctor Strange, where I expect much more time to be devoted to getting him to Kamar-Taj and training him.

Black Panther is the kind of thing where an even shorter origin could work, or maybe intercutting flashbacks. Like the X-Men, the larger premise of the setting is more important than exactly how the hero got their powers or their past life up to that point. You could even rely exclusively on dialogue and context to explain Wakanda's vibranium industry, her politics, and the ritual of the heart-shaped herb all in the present day, without a single flashback.

edited 20th Oct '16 1:24:08 PM by Unsung


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