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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#63701: Oct 16th 2016 at 9:30:14 AM

"that his storyline in the movie is really interesting and that he actually gets to do some awesome shit"

That is not his problem, is that he dosent really have a strong personality at all, he is a little bit dumb but enjoyable which is nice in a group but not enought to actually be protagonist in a movie, which is why he is overshow by loki every time.

Now about the show...so far is good consider the show have been in their on little corner, granted it can get awkard with Agent of Shield, where hundred of people get power, Hydra aparenly workship and ancient alien and the Avenger....are to busy punching each other in the dick.

and Hulk stealing the show....good, he need it after all that crap in Ao U

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#63702: Oct 16th 2016 at 9:36:19 AM

Thor does not have a bland personality. He's a Blood Knight Boisterous Bruiser sort. The problem here is: A) People are quick to judge any sort of brawler character as a dumb jock and thus boring B) Loki's whole Anti-Villain shtick overshadows him.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#63703: Oct 16th 2016 at 9:38:22 AM

I just did not find Thor's development in the first movie compelling at all. On paper he should be an entertaining character but he just did very little for me.

I'm sure that with some better writing and a well-constructed arc he could be a great character.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63704: Oct 16th 2016 at 10:04:24 AM

[up]

And I'm sure that even great writing won't stop people from writing him off as being boring and uninteresting anyway.

People can be set in their ways like that.

One Strip! One Strip!
RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63705: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:01:01 AM

[up]they are in their ways like that. I use to work retail and oh boy... customers are stupid stubborn.

Thor is a likeable barbarian currently trying to use his self-control to restrain urges that are not appropriate like taking a step back away from disturbing Bruce with his Valhalla hurah. Overall he's in love with hammering things but ever since his childish nature got the best of him he has taken actions to make sure that previous lifestyle doesn't rise again. There's an inner state of being to Thor that's been revealed in subtle doses, but aside from looking inward I can say on the exterior he is fun. He caters to Extraversion, a personality indicator that determines you are warm, positive, active, assertive, excitement-seeking... etc. The action beats each script gives him certainly aren't boring guys. And the actor doesn't walk around with only a resting birch face. Thor is a simple character though there's this simplicity has to be analyzed with a critical lense in order to be precivivded as someone complex. The same applies to Steve except Steve's plots contribute far more to it. Thor films have been fun and engaging. That's no lie. So was GOG and AM. However, the plots don't offer much in the same regard as the last two CA films. A boring bckbuster is like Cowboys and Aliens, God's of Egypt, and Seventh Son. At least Thor films enagane us in their absurdity. I think that's what's important, otherwise I'm gonna go zzzzzzzzzz like Jason Borne; yeah the film had a lot of plot but the title character made little difference on my reaction towards everything he did and what was done on him.

Rangarok's script might juice up Thor's Extraversism and have him do rely crazy things that reflect the director's style. People will still complain no doubt.

I will say Thor films have waisted world building and lore hence now only going inward to the character's mindset is left.

edited 16th Oct '16 11:40:23 AM by RulerOfImagineverse

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#63706: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:36:58 AM

" Overall he's in love with hammering things but ever since his childish nature got the best of him he has taken actions to make sure that previous lifestyle doesn't rise again"

Which it just sound like another version of Tony or Bruce: a guy with problem that try to moderate himself, it read more like "Thor was blood knight and have to learn to be less of it" which it dosent really acomplish much really.

" The same applies to Steve except Steve's plots contribute far more to it. "

Steve personality IS bland as hell, but the diference is that Steve have a strong cast around him that bring the best(or worst, depending how you read CW) of him, while Thor surronging cast.....yeah.

Again, Thor is funny chararter but I dont know if a good protagonist so far.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63707: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:37:33 AM

Part of it is also that so much of Thor's storyline in the first two movies was tied to a Base Breaker romance. And through no fault of his own, the solo storyline they gave him in AOU ended up being one of the most widely criticized aspects of the movie.

Why did they write themselves into a corner? Shield has a lot of secrets, that is basically in the job description.

Because having Coulson's resurrection happen outside the movies basically killed any chance at the cast showing up in the movies. That's not supposition either, that's pretty much what Whedon said.

edited 16th Oct '16 12:10:32 PM by comicwriter

RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63708: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:42:02 AM

[up] [up] Bruce and Tony have personalities, values, motivations, and behaviours discenet from Thor -_-

[up] If May, Fitz, Simmons, Mac, and Daisy have any personal reason to enter Dr Strange, Spider Homecoming, Thor Ranagork, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Ant Man and Wasp, and Black Panther then I'm sure there's no reason not to. If it's pivotal for them to stop doing what their doing in AOS because they find any upcoming event in a film before IW important then the director should include them. If Thanos comes to Earth and SHIELD feels the need to get involved then yes we can question why aren't they in the film.

edited 16th Oct '16 11:52:41 AM by RulerOfImagineverse

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#63709: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:42:11 AM

[up][up]And more important, compre Thor storyline with Loki learing his is a frost gigant and that Odin kept him as meat ticket just in case and become unhinged as film progress, compare that to "Thor have to learn about being less of a dick" is obvious why Loki steal the show....twice.

[up] of course, but Tony storyline in the first two movie is pretty much the same as Thor, a jerk who learn to be less of a jerk, with Thor is just less compelling

edited 16th Oct '16 11:46:54 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63710: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:51:20 AM

So, Thor was a Shakespearean fantasy, The Dark World was a sci-fi Cosmic Horror Story. I guess Ragnarok will be a sword-and-sandals disaster film?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#63711: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:54:34 AM

If you think Tony, Bruce and Thor are so similar because they are "guys with problems trying to moderate themselves" then we have kind of a problem: that incredibly vague, broad description can be applied to nearly everything. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, for instance, can all be described as that. Because "self-moderation" is a big thing on superheroes.

Their problems are entirely different. Bruce's problem is he rejects his flaws instead of accepting them, leading to the Hulk persona, thus his arc tends to be about syncing them together. Tony is a egocentric who can't get past his own genius. Thor is a man addicted to the thrill of battle who has to learn about the santicity of life.

You could say Thor's storyline is about "being less of a dick", but you could also say that Loki's storyline is about "throwing a tantrum" under that reductionist logic.

Also: Odin didn't keep Loki as a meal ticket (what the Hell would that even mean? Odin already rules Asgard), he kept Loki out of the kindness of his heart because Laufey had left Loki to die in the cold. It's a common but as of yet unspoken fan theory that Odin kept Loki with him so he could guide Loki into rulling the Frost Giants and even that is pretty far from a "meal ticket".

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63712: Oct 16th 2016 at 11:59:20 AM

[up][up] Dark World wasn't cosmic horror. Dr. Strange is - Ancient One: "There are certain forces that even a master of the mystic arts should not dabble in"

Dark world was more of a portral fantasy without being about one.

edited 16th Oct '16 12:01:40 PM by RulerOfImagineverse

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#63713: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:02:05 PM

Dark World was closer to a more straightforward Flash Gordon-ish Space Opera.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#63714: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:03:10 PM

The romance in Thor 1 is by far one of the worst aspects of the movie. The best way for me to describe it is that it felt like mandatory superhero love interest plot #445335, i.e something that was there as a genre expectation and which they put very little effort into.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63715: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:04:23 PM

Thor's storyarc is all about learning to reflect about himself and to accept the responsibility of his position. It is more similar to Tony's arc, actually, just that Thor doesn't keep messing things up in a fruitless attempt to control them. Thor's struggle is one of personal desires - notable not selfish ones, just personal ones - vs the greater good. That is actually quite interesting, but the writing let's the character down multiple times, and it certainly doesn't help that Loki is even more interesting than he is. In addition, Thor lacks a strong supporting cast. There are a number of characters in the franchise, but most of them are fairly one-note. Which is exactly why he works the best when he is playing off Loki.

RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63716: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:15:22 PM

[up]Darcy and gang are fun but unlike the secondary cast for CA and IM they don't add anything outside said fun. Warriors three have been waisted. Other Asgurdiwns have little to none interactions with Thor. So... I see why the latest director fucks all that by going in a whole new direction. No point in trying to make up for whaft we lost

edited 16th Oct '16 12:22:15 PM by RulerOfImagineverse

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#63717: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:16:43 PM

"If you think Tony, Bruce and Thor are so similar because they are "guys with problems trying to moderate themselves" then we have kind of a problem"

good thing I never said that, I said they often have similar story arcs, as Swanpride said his is more abou personal desire vs greater good, which is very similar to Tony.

"just that Thor doesn't keep messing things up in a fruitless attempt to control them"

Also, that Thor flaw dosent drive him into a self destructive path, he is a little bit of a jerk, but it dosent feel why is such a big deal because Odin kick him out to earth

", he kept Loki out of the kindness of his heart because Laufey had left Loki to die in the cold."

What? If I remenber well, Odin grow to care about Loki after he take him away, but the real reason was to used him as diplomacy lavarage with Frost gigants, the conflict between Odin and Loki is in part because the later cant belive the former actually did actually care of him in anyway

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63718: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:18:17 PM

The Dark World was an episode of Fringe/Stargate, and I don't say that as a criticism.

Thor's written indecisively. He's more of a Boisterous Bruiser in the Avengers movies, more traditionally heroic in his own. Neither is bland, but it makes him kind of vague, especially when he's in a room with Shakespearean actors like Tom Hiddleston and Anthony Hopkins. It's not even that this is great Shakespearean performance art, but they project and have a presence that makes Thor seem secondary in his own movie. In Shakespeare, Loki would be the the Tragic Hero— he's got by far the more complex motivation and sympathetic beginnings.

Chris Hemsworth gives a more down-to-earth, restrained, naturalistic performance— yes, despite the accent and costume and boasting, because that could be so much more overacted than it is. Where he actually tends to shine is in comic moments, with Selvig and Sif and the Warriors Three. Which is why I'm hopeful for Ragnarok. Somebody at Marvel clearly noticed that, since they tapped Taika Waititi to direct.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#63719: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:22:42 PM

Laufey left Loki to die in the cold and Odin picked up the baby, in his own words, because he was a innocent child left to die in the cold of the battlefield. It is Loki, who is quite self-delusional, who doesn't believe him and presses him for more answers. and Odin answers he conecieved the idea that maybe, one day he could make Loki bring peace to both kingdoms.

Loki then accuses Odin of exactly what you are accusing Odin now, and Odin, righfully, answers "Why do you twist my words?". In both the flashbacks and Odin's own account it's clear he took Loki mostly because it was a infant dying in the wilderness. Whichever concepts of using Loki to bring peace to the war were distant second thoughts.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63720: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:27:47 PM

[up][up]Dr. Selivg has always been the waicker side of Walter.

edited 16th Oct '16 12:28:21 PM by RulerOfImagineverse

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63721: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:27:47 PM

The Captain America Franchise has by far the strongest supporting cast in the MCU! Howard, Peggy, Bucky, Sam, Natasha even Sharon, I care for all of them and want to see them on the screen in their own right, not just related to Steve. (Between Hydra and Zemo it also has some of the best villains in the MCU).

RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63722: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:29:24 PM

[up]Zemo is nothing until his other 4 something films prove his worth

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#63723: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:31:53 PM

The Thor franchise just really underuses its supporting cast. Odin is great and the best Thor scenes in the Dark World are Thor and Odin talking. Sif and the Warriors Three are also great, but they never get anything interesting to do.

Some sources report that one of the reasons for the lesser Asgardian cast presence in the Dark World is because of the infamous recuts to add more Loki. One whole character, Clive Russell's (from Game of Thrones) Tyr, was cut wholesale.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63724: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:32:42 PM

Taikia said Ranagrok is retro sifi

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63725: Oct 16th 2016 at 12:33:54 PM

I wonder if Feige is planning ahead for the a Thunderbolts-movie with Zemo as their leader.


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