TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#63651: Oct 15th 2016 at 7:18:46 AM

How did Fox using Viper in The Wolverine work? They didn't originally have to era to her, so I know they paid extra, but was that renting the rights for one movie, or for a longer time span?

Possibly similar to the Maximoff twin kerfluffle. She was created as a villain in Captain America & The Falcon but she had some very notable storylines as an X-Men villain too.

Which begs the question: can Marvel use Viper if they want to? I mean, she does seem like the kind of bad guy SW would play....(God, I hate this Marvel vs. Fox licensing bullcrud.)

I heard somewhere that Chris Evans actually hurt his muscles in the Helicopter scene because the crane was positioned a little bit too far away, so he ended up actually straining against the Helicopter for real instead of just pretending to.

Not sure if very impressive or very concerning.

About half of it was pretty much what you'd expect from an MCU movie. The other half ranged from heeby-jeeby-inducing to reminding you how insignificant you are.

....................holy crap.

Feige really wants Strange and Stark to meet onscreen apparently. It's coming.

[lol][lol][lol]


[up] No offense, but dude, fix that quoteblock and spoiler-tag it, some of us wanna go in super-blind.

edited 15th Oct '16 7:23:38 AM by TargetmasterJoe

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63654: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:03:21 AM

If it's in the Defenders I'm fairly certain shell be playing someone who is connected to the Hand (unfortunately). Viper doesn't really seem like the character who'd fit her.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63655: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:16:27 AM

Because I'm bored: The Marvel Cinematic Universe has a TV Problem

Just gonna quote the relevant bits

Marvel likes to boast that everything in its cinematic universe is connected. But it would be more accurate to say that the TV shows are shackled to their much bigger brother movies, which seem to hardly be aware of the shows’ existence.

Let it sink in for a moment that in MCU canon Phil Coulson is brought back to life after The Avengers. He’s alive, and served as Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., leading a group that fights all kinds of secret battles against Hydra and other organizations intent on evil. S.H.I.E.L.D. as an organization (and Coulson himself) have been in and out of hiding, serving as both a legitimate and clandestine force for fighting evil.

Does any of that jive with the overarching narrative millions of moviegoers are experiencing on the big screen? At no point does any member of the Avengers acknowledge any of this or seem to be aware of it in Age of Ultron, Civil War, or any of the other times we’ve gotten to see them in action and it might have been relevant. There are in-universe justifications for this, but they're flimsy.

The truth is that the TV shows and the films are connected - but only in one direction. Major events in the films (like a huge portion of S.H.I.E.L.D. being infested with secret Hydra plants) can completely blow up the established status quo in a show like Ao S. But as a rule it seems that nothing that happens on the small screen can ever trickle its way back up to the movies.

It’s hard to blame Marvel much for not folding any MCU TV plotlines into the films. It’s already asking a lot of the movie-going public to remember the finer plot points from movies like Age of Ultron and Ant-Man in order to fully appreciate Civil War, the 13th film in the franchise. There are now more than 46 hours of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to watch - nearly double the total running time of all 13 movies combined. It would clearly be a mistake to expect the movie-going public to also be up-to-speed on the ABC Action/Adventure series.

I'm going to reiterate that this isn't a problem, regardless of how much or how little of a connection anyone bothered by this wants.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#63657: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:23:02 AM

The production times of the movies are also an issue. Doctor Strange has been in the works for two years but AOS season 4 didn't start filming until earlier this year. connecting the two together would be a bit challenging. I think it would be easier to wait until the show is done before integrating the characters into the movies. The only alternative I can think of is some kind of Infinity War cameo that shows different battles against Thanos's forces taking place around the world. If they do that then they can show the AOS cast, the Defenders, Ghost Rider, etc fighting without needing to integrate them into the movie plot.

edited 15th Oct '16 8:23:17 AM by Kostya

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63658: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:33:05 AM

[up][up]Do you honestly see the Netflix shows doing a direct tie to a movie villain like that? Hey they might, but thus far they've mostly done their own thing. I wouldn't expect them to be fighting the Red Skull's daughter.

As for the article, they basically resolved their own point/answered their own question. For something like Civil War there's a reasonable assumption that most of the audience had already seen Avengers, Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3 and the two Captain America movies. The former three by sheer statistics (they are three of the franchise's highest grossing movies) and the latter two because you should probably watch the previous two movies if you're going to see the third installment.

The TV shows are way different in that regard. You can't assume everyone is keeping up with a TV show that is now 4 seasons in.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#63659: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:35:13 AM

No offense, but dude, fix that quoteblock and spoiler-tag it, some of us wanna go in super-blind.

Done and done, but seriously, all that quote could spoil you for is that MCU films have credit scenes. My own remarks were spoiler-tagged in the first place.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63660: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:19:35 AM

I am totally okay with the movies influencing the TV shows instead of the other way around. It works and makes sense concerning the production schedule...the only worry I have is that they might get rid of Agents of Shield. The show is the lynchpin if the MCU, it is what ties everything together and I really would feel the loss if it were gone.

Though the movies could acknowledge a develop or two of the show once in a while...the closest we have come to a reference so far is Sharon telling Steve that her Aunt Peggy gave her her first holster, which was a call-back to Peggy getting the first kind of this holster from Jarvis wife.

edited 15th Oct '16 9:21:06 AM by Swanpride

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#63661: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:43:39 AM

I don't think it was ever going to be any other way, honestly.

The Netflix shows in and of themselves are also very different from the movies and connecting them TOO much might be awkward, given that shows like DD and JJ are much darker than the films.

We're never gonna have something like the comics where all these characters can pop into each others' stories seemingly at random.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63662: Oct 15th 2016 at 11:57:42 AM

A little Easter egg here and there— like Sandra Carter getting her holster from Peggy— goes a long way. And with the lead time the shows have over the movies, being able to reference things the other way makes a big difference. I get the logistics of why the movies can't really reference current events on the shows, but the shows, AOS in particular, can and should talk about and participate in the fallout of the movies.

RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63663: Oct 15th 2016 at 12:04:01 PM

I already said this a thousands times on i09. There is no reason for team Coulson or anyone from around New York, whereever Ruunaways, Squrile Girl, and Damage Control take place popping up on the sliver screen yet because that would just count as a nonesitional glorified cameo. People in charge of television have done a great job of establishing what happens outside the movie theater doesn't exist in a void. In fact without them the subtle impacts the films brought forth would be noneexistnet. There would be less thematic pairing. Although the accords have nothing to do with Netflix's heroes, Luke Cage the show sure acts like it is. There would be less world building pairing. Hello the entire Darkforce, current Ghost Rider thing, Inhumans, Kree, and Hydra, and SHIELD? The MCU would be a million times smaller like any other large scale verse. It wouldn't reach its highest potential to appear and feel lived in.

The only way for television characters to enter a plot point within a film and do something about it is if there's a reason and reasons are best if personal. I think that's what people want. Well sorry to break to those people's hearts... why would Matt, Jessica, Danny, Luke, and team Coulson drop whatever they're doing just to hop over to Wakanda in 2 years for "we are all connected" sake? Why would team Couslon stop by Queens? It has to make sense from not only a narrative point of view but character.. and these characters dont give two shits abour what goes on outside their own stories. Plus television people always make sure the conflict quickly descalates before obviously stepping into matters the films deal with. Watchdogs on AOS did something big and might keep on doing it but it won't reach the need for Spider Man and Iron Man to get involded by next year. Sure add a television report so Tony and Peter can discuss this radical group if that's what you want to hear, but remember each scene you add in a script that's not bnefiting anything or pushing the plot ahead is a dead scene. You're taking time away from the title character, in this case Spider-Man.

AOS can keep on dealing with "magic" but Fitz won't enter the dimension Ghost Rider is affiliated with. Meanwhile, Dr. Strange can. The Heavenly Cities and the Hand utilize mystical stuff on a scale much smaller compared to a character who defends Earth from probably the same sources of powers those two groups draw out from. Television can still dive into the same basic blah-blahs seen in the films without being directly part of them. They occupy the same space after all.

In terms of a business perceptive well... the production for each product is years apart. Yeah there's limitations for both mediums. They don't bother me because television parcpaties in the same events and elements.

edited 15th Oct '16 1:04:51 PM by RulerOfImagineverse

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#63664: Oct 15th 2016 at 1:01:00 PM

Peggy Carter-related stuff is probably canon for both tv shows and films.

I tend to agree with the idea that AOS takes the movies as canon but not vice versa.

In regard to the Netflix shows, it's a mixed bag. One thing that struck me is that both Jessica Jones and Luke Cage have scenes where a character refers to the Avengers members in Buffy Speak rather than naming them. What seems different between them though is the former seems to present it as if the public at large doesn't really know who those people are and is only slightly informed of their activities. In contrast, when that guy selling bootleg dvds refers to Captain America as the "old white guy with a shield" (to differentiate him from Thor), it comes across more like the Avengers are well known; just not particularly important to that guy.

Regarding Coulson, one thing I'd love to see is it coming up in a conversation between Loki and Thor/other Avengers that Coulson was resurrected. And Loki would comment something to the effect of "no harm, no foul amirite?"

edited 15th Oct '16 1:01:58 PM by Hodor2

RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63665: Oct 15th 2016 at 1:25:21 PM

So I've been trying to find a good example of the horrifying stuff that dwells in dimensions like Dark Dimension. This is pretty accurate

[1]

Stuff like that seduced the Zealots.

edited 15th Oct '16 1:26:24 PM by RulerOfImagineverse

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#63666: Oct 15th 2016 at 1:36:16 PM

It's pretty easy to keep the Netflix series seperate from the movies, since they're generally handling smaller scale conflicts that are below the Avengers' pay grade. The seperation is really only a problem for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. since they're handling the same sort of globe-spanning, world-in-peril threats that the movie characters often deal with.

Though, now that Spider-Man's been added to the MCU, it might be weird if his path never crosses with the Netflix heroes' in some way.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#63667: Oct 15th 2016 at 1:45:58 PM

I could see someone on a Netflix show commenting that Spider-Man doesn't come to this part of town.

Edit- Remembered something. So Roxxon played a villainous role in Agent Carter and from The Other Wiki, I see they've had a presence in both the movies and other series as well. I'd definitely expect them to turn up in Spider-Man and perhaps also in the Defenders what with the IGH plotline.

edited 15th Oct '16 1:50:31 PM by Hodor2

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63668: Oct 15th 2016 at 1:53:58 PM

Or they could just have him appear in the distance as CGI. Same with Iron Man, really. That CGI is expensive, though, so even that couldn't happen all that often.

I think the thing about the Avengers is that they're an elite, celebrity, military-paramilitary group. They're famous, but the average person probably doesn't know that much about them other than what they've heard on the news, so how much they know is dependent on how much they care.

A big part of the Netflix shows has been how self-contained they are— which has to do with the characters and their circumstances and personalities as much as anything. They all want to do the right thing, but for their own reasons, so they deliberately avoid the spotlight. Which is why Luke facing up to his past matters, why Iron Fist having Danny take over the Rand Corporation matters— they can provide the Defenders with a public face. Even Jessica Jones being inundated with job offers after killing Kilgrave ties into that. These are the people's heroes, chosen by the city of New York, rather than appointed by governments or SHIELD.

edited 15th Oct '16 2:03:45 PM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63669: Oct 15th 2016 at 1:56:11 PM

Well, they could have stuck a few agents of shield in the background of the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron, but I get why this is difficult to schedule. But I really with that they would at least mention the fact that there are now Inhumans in the MCU at one point. Hell, they don't even have to use that word, just be a little bit clearer that there are more and more powered people in the MCU and people are terrified because of it....

Otherwise I really look forward to Civil War spreading over the TV shows. I have the feeling it will be an "all hands on deck" event when everything is said on done. Agents of Shield is already working in the direction.

Who else was kind of teary eyed towards the end of the last episode when they showed the press conference?

edited 15th Oct '16 1:56:29 PM by Swanpride

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#63670: Oct 15th 2016 at 2:24:21 PM

I don't see why it's such a big deal whether the movies reference the shows or not.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63671: Oct 15th 2016 at 2:26:01 PM

Because it's something people would enjoy.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63672: Oct 15th 2016 at 2:26:13 PM

[up][up]I share the same sentiment, and I say that as someone that like Agents of SHIELD.

edited 15th Oct '16 2:26:27 PM by VeryMelon

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#63673: Oct 15th 2016 at 2:43:15 PM

Like I said, when the characters run in very different circles (like the Avengers, who deal with globe-spanning threats to national security, versus the Defenders, who handle New York based street crime) them not referencing each other isn't an issue. It's when the characters run in the same circles that people complain, since them continuing to not interact with or reference each other hurts suspension of disbelief.

That said, I find the thing Jessica Jones did, where they'll reference the Avengers, but conspiculously avoid using their names, instead repeatedly using euphenisms like "the big green guy", to be very distracting.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63674: Oct 15th 2016 at 3:14:17 PM

I said it before but they really should have either not resurrected Coulson, or had his resurrection happen in the movies. It might've made integration easier.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63675: Oct 15th 2016 at 3:16:34 PM

I don't mind it if Coulson stays dead for the movies...it is more the big events I want addressed like Superpowered people becoming a common occurrence (Civil War and Ant-man kind of does that, but a little bit more emphasis wouldn't be amiss) or what happened in the last episode of Ao S.


Total posts: 186,763
Top