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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#63476: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:12:14 PM

[up][up] In the comics, yes, but in the MCU he definitely appears to have some superhuman strength going. Like the scene in Civil War when he bicep-curls an entire helicoptor - or the other scene in Civil War when he kicks and armored vehicle so hard it skids and hits the guy on the other side.

edited 9th Oct '16 2:12:26 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63477: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:13:00 PM

[up][up][up] Stopping a car is not the same thing as throwing one. No matter how you call it, Cap in the MCU is able to throw a motorbike in one smooth movement and stop a helicopter from taking off. What he did so far lead me to believe that he is stronger than Luke Cage and that his healing factor is faster, too, in that Luke is hard to hurt in the first place, but need a little bit longer to recover if he ends up injured after all, while Steve is more vulnerable especially without his shield, but he would most likely shake off a concussion in seconds.

[up] I heard somewhere that Chris Evans actually hurt his muscles in the Helicoper scene because the crane was positioned a little bit too far away, so he ended up actually straining against the Helicopter for real instead of just pretending to.

edited 9th Oct '16 2:15:25 PM by Swanpride

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63478: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:16:10 PM

I have to wonder how much upward force an ascending helicopter has to measure Cap's strength. Maybe that helicopter was just weak, and not designed to be pulled downwards.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#63479: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:16:14 PM

Also, Cap has the same strength as the Red Skull, and Skull was explicitly shown denting metal with a single punch.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#63480: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:16:48 PM

[up][up][up]All I know is that in the comics, Luke is perfectly capable of throwing a car and Cap couldn't stop so much as a Buick if he tried. And so far, I haven't seen anything that contradicts that. No offense, but I don't recall him throwing a motorcycle or stopping a helicopter with his bare hands anywhere, so for me, he's still a Bad Ass Normal.

edited 9th Oct '16 2:17:27 PM by kkhohoho

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63481: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:22:14 PM

[up] Throwing a motorcycle: First scene in Age of Ultron. Stopping a Helicopter: Civil War.

This might not be the case in the comics, but we are discussing the MCU here....and unlike most of the other heroes, Cap got an upgrade there. The MCU usually tends to downplay the strength of its characters so that they are still vulnerable enough to make the fight scenes compelling, but Cap got a small boost so that he can believably hold up to the really big threats.

There is a lot of stuff in the comics which isn't part of the MCU and the other way around, so using the Comics as a baseline is pretty much pointless.

edited 9th Oct '16 2:23:04 PM by Swanpride

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63482: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:22:32 PM

Cap's peak human condition applies to his brain and nerves as well as his muscles and bones. I don't mean that the serum made him a genius, but rather that he has heightened perception, reflexes, tolerance for pain, autonomic response, etc, etc. Keeping that helicopter from lifting off was probably the absolute limit of his strength, and you could see it in his face, but that doesn't make him less super overall— no Crippling Overspecialization for Cap, he's enhanced across the board. We'd have to see them side by side to be sure, but I suspect the Luke or Jessica wouldn't be straining in the same way. Luke because in addition to probably being at least as strong as Cap if not stronger, doesn't have to worry about pain or overextending himself in the same way, as mentioned earlier; Jessica because she's just that strong.

I feel like flipping that bike had more to do with controlling its momentum than just straight up lifting it. It still requires a fuckton of strength, but I saw it as more of a combination of strength, agility, and coordination more than just 'pick up a motorcycle and toss it'.

edited 9th Oct '16 6:03:06 PM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63483: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:24:23 PM

[up] I actually think that holding a helicopter this way would hurt Luke Cage...it would strain his muscles.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63484: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:28:06 PM

His muscles actually seem to be where he's strongest, no pun intended. Both times he's been seriously hurt the biggest problem has been that his skin and muscles are so dense that it's impossible to operate. Meanwhile, the soft tissue around his eyes and guts were relatively yielding.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#63485: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:29:20 PM

[up][up]So, he can tap out a man with just the back of his hand like nobody's business, but he'd rip his arm apart trying to bring down a helicopter? Because that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

edited 9th Oct '16 2:29:41 PM by kkhohoho

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63486: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:40:15 PM

Nothing surprising in the least but Evangeline Lilly confirms she'll be in the second Infinity War/Avengers 4/Whatever we're calling it now.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#63487: Oct 9th 2016 at 3:42:43 PM

Wonder if this is Marvel's new marketing strategy for its more obscure heroes. They did the same thing with Ant-Man.

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#63488: Oct 9th 2016 at 3:43:28 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTb4APFqh_A

The Capitan is almost as strong as Spiderman, he is a super-human.

Wilson fisk, Batroc and Black Widow are peak humans.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#63489: Oct 9th 2016 at 3:58:31 PM

It bears keeping in mind that, in superhero comics, there's usually a fair amount of Charles Atlas Superpower going around. Even if someone explicitely does not have superpowers and has merely trained their body within human limits, they'll likely still be able to perform feats of strength far beyond anything a real life human being could ever accomplish.

Kingpin is just supposed to be an ordinary human being who's unusually tough, but in the comics he's been known to physically overpower Spider-Man.

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#63490: Oct 9th 2016 at 4:05:20 PM

And in comics, normal humans can dodged Flash's attacks.

But in the MCU, characters that are Peak Humans, would be: Kingpin, May, Black Widow and Batroc.

Spiderman > or = Super Soldier >> Peak Human

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#63491: Oct 9th 2016 at 4:07:49 PM

I don't really see MCU Fisk as peak human.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63492: Oct 9th 2016 at 4:17:41 PM

MCU Spider-Man is wayyy stronger than Cap. He held up that collapsing...thing, I forget if it was the building or the plane. Either way, really.

Agent May's more an example of what skill and training can do. She's not the strongest human alive, or the fastest, but she's intimately familiar with combat itself, and turns that to her advantage. Widow too, is an example of something similar (her and Clint), although her training and conditioning were more...unusual. Fisk is abnormally strong and tough, and like Matt, he's a Determinator, fuelled by rage to push his body past normal limits. None of them are quite on the level of Captain America, though, because he's peak pretty much across the board, while they only achieve peaks in certain key areas. Widow's probably the closest thing to a match for him, and only if she can use her skillset and gadgetry. That's not to look down on her or dismiss her— the whole point of the Avengers is that just bashing things over the head isn't all you need.

edited 9th Oct '16 5:35:58 PM by Unsung

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#63493: Oct 9th 2016 at 4:55:17 PM

Agent May's more an example of what skill and training can do. She's not the strongest human alive, or the fastest, but she's intimately familiar with combat itself, and turns that to her advantage.

Misread that as "Aunt May". tongue

edited 9th Oct '16 4:55:39 PM by Tuckerscreator

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63494: Oct 9th 2016 at 4:59:26 PM

She's got a brother, right? She's probably someone's Aunt May. Think about that.

Also, May Parker could break you or me over her little old lady knee. Don't doubt it.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#63495: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:10:52 PM

Cap clearly possesses superhuman strength in the MCU. I mean, stopping a moving helicopter with just one arm while grabbing onto a metal bar/ledge for support and throwing a motorcycle with no hint of exertion....he's clearly not just a "peak human".

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63496: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:14:39 PM

You're probably right (though there's that whole 'old lady jacked on adrenaline lifts up her car' anecdote) but I do still think Luke and Jessica Jones are stronger.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#63497: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:31:27 PM

Fisk isn't "peak human", he's just very big and very strong.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63498: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:36:12 PM

[up][up]

Maybe the Super-Soldier formula constantly puts him in that state, and lets him maintain it where others wouldn't be able to.

One Strip! One Strip!
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#63499: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:49:09 PM

[up]I can buy that. I wouldn't say he's an out-and-out bruiser, but yeah, he's got something that makes him more than just 'peak human' here. On a scale from 1-10 ,(with 3 being a Bad Ass Normal,) I'd say that MCU!Cap's a solid 4. He's got some strength, but everyone else makes him look like a lightweight by comparison. Which isn't a problem, because even with that extra strength, Cap still relies more on his skill and training, which makes even the Bad Ass Normal version from the comics a force to be reckoned with.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63500: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:53:07 PM

[up][up] and [up] Sure, something like that. It could also allow the subject to activate their muscles in ways that the human nervous system normally can't, maybe— chimpanzees are estimated to be around 3-5 times stronger than humans, although their fine motor control isn't as good.


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